Conference Realignment: Notre Dame Newspaper Makes Case For ACC
by Brian Favat on Sep 22, 2011 10:30 AM EDT
in Conference Expansion
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The Notre Dame Fighting Irish -- the self-proclaimed "best looking girl at the high school dance" -- is still the most coveted expansion target out there. The debate continues to rage whether the Irish will end up in a conference, and whether that conference is the Big Ten or the ACC.
In a letter to the editor of the Notre Dame student newspaper The Observer, at least one Notre Dame senior feels that the Irish should end up in the ACC, not the Big Ten.
"It's much more exciting as a Notre Dame fan to envision an ACC schedule. Michigan and Michigan State are iconic, and Wisconsin's enticing, but I would rather get dragged naked over a cactus then get forced to watch low-energy games against mediocre state school programs (see Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, etc.). On the contrary, we could stoke the fire against perennial powers Miami, Florida State, Clemson and Virginia Tech, while keeping in touch with familiar foes Pitt and BC. FSU? The U? We'd forget Sparty and Purdue real quick and never look back."
The student goes on to tout the conference's academic superiority over the other BCS AQ conferences.
"Let's not forget that behind this whole circus are actual universities where real people go to get authentic degrees. If Notre Dame wants to associate with universities that share a similar commitment to academics, the move needs to be to the ACC. U.S. News rankings show that as it stands, the new ACC has seven top 40 universities. The new Big 10 only has two. Where it matters - in the classroom - that's like Tyson fighting an infant."
So long as Notre Dame remains an independent, I don't believe that the ACC will move to 16 teams, ending any possibility that the Irish could eventually end up in the ACC. It's certainly interesting that the conference didn't move to 16 schools on Sunday, taking a breather to signal to Notre Dame that there's a seat at the table for the Irish.
Y! Sports Dan Wetzel believes that Notre Dame should take a long, hard look at the ACC too, citing geographic and demographic reasons why the ACC may be a more suitable long-term home than the Big Ten.
Then there's the academic argument, one in which at least one ND senior believes the ACC is a better conference academically than the Big Ten. The two conferences are certainly close, but the question remains whether academic standing actually plays a role in all this conference realignment. The Wall Street Journal takes a look at this very question in an article published Wednesday. LSU president John Lombardi thinks the academic argument is simply a rationalization made by conference commissioners and programs:
"Once an athletic conference is expanded by the addition of athletically effective institutions with strong television markets, then the members talk about the relative wonderfulness of their members' academic profiles."
With due respect, I'm not sure Lombardi speaks for the rest of these BCS AQ conferences when you consider the WSJ determined that the SEC ranked fifth academically among BCS AQ conference, behind only the Big 12. Either way, academics clearly will play some role in any realignment that includes Notre Dame. In other words, the Irish aren't going to go running off to the Big 12 or the SEC any time soon, and if the Irish are backed into a corner and forced to choose a conference, the two likely candidates now are the Big Ten or the ACC.
So what do you think? Does Notre Dame actually fit better in the ACC over the Big Ten? Will the Irish ever give up its football independence and join one of these superconferences? Do academics matter in the conference expansion arms race?
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perennial powers Miami, Florida State, Clemson and Virginia Tech
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by Tweed Thornton on Sep 22, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Does Notre Dame actually fit better in the ACC over the Big Ten?
The ACC, culturally and institutionally. ND is a solid Academic School with a fairly cosmopolitan, international student body and faculty. They speak our language.
Athletically, the Big 10. They have too rich a history with Michigan, Mich. State and Purdue. Yet what could they possibly discuss off the grid iron? Hunting Rifles? Militia Groups? Safest Neighborhoods in Chicago? How to avoid shakedown by Labor Unions?
Weak
Notre Dame Newspaper Makes Case For ACC
hmm . . . . is your headline accurate?
basis for headline is:
1. a letter to the editor — not an article
2. to a student newspaper, not really an official “notre dame” newspaper.
3. written by a random student, not by a person who has any clout or knowledge
but maybe your post will help get a better conversation started.
And Y! Sports Dan Wetzel …
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 22, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not helping your case
Typical Wetzel article filled with weak assumptions and poor analysis. Losing the ability to schedule BE football teams isn’t a big deal for ND, they will just start scheduling other programs. Teams are lined up to play ND, even in November. The assumption ND will be forced to join relatively soon isn’t based on anything but the fact the ACC looks to add two more schools (beyond Pitt and SU). However there is no reason to think the Big10 will go to 16 anytime soon and the prospects of the Pac12 doing so are slim and none. So his idea is ND should move to another neighborhood, of course without actually living there. The Irish know the Big10 is holding a seat open for them, and even Wetzel says it’s a natural fit. Next thing we will read is how ND is a great fit for the Big12, oh wait we already had that happen.
I'm not complaining
Like the Big Ten, I think the ACC will also keep a seat warm for Notre Dame, and until they are off the board (read: join a conference as an all-sports member), I don’ think the ACC will shut the door on the possibility by adding Rutgers and UConn.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 22, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Having said that, Death to the BCS was a good read.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 22, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe your post will help get a better conversation started.
This should provoke an interesting discussion. I predict a dichotomy between Big 10 Traditionalists and ND Neophytes. I’m not sure which side the Subway Alums should be grouped but since they’re in NYC, I would assume the latter—ACC expansion.
Fr. Jenkins is Progressive so he could open the the possibility of change especially with an appeal to the South, the source of population spike. Translation: new revenue and new markets.
Swarbrick on the other hand is like his predecessors. He’s not necessarily a Traditionalist but he’s definitely an opportunist. Take his recent comments on the ACC expansion with a grain of salt. His words masked his underlying concern: self-preservation.
My prediction: ND will end up in the ACC but it will take a few years before its fully realized. The market will eventually force Swarbrick’s hand. The arguments will only snowball and develop over time. Once they’re pinned into an impossible corner, they’ll pull the trigger.
And since the ACC is East Coast, the Media would be more than willing to spin the move into a transition based on Academic affiliation.
Radio in Charlotte is reporting that Big East wants Syracuse & Pittsburgh out immediately
Was eating lunch and was listening to everything, but they would not cite a source. Is there any truth to this? The hosts kept claiming that the conference had time to finally think it through and were going to ask them to leave at end of the season so that they could bring in new teams as football only members for now.
I’m taking it with a grain of salt. The Big East has already lost them, so they can not use them in contract negotiations, and once they officially join the ACC can re-do its on TV contracts (GET MORE DAMN MONEY SWOFFORD LIKE 5 to 8 MILLION PER TEAM MORE). Is there any truth to this, or is this just more rumors and whatnot?
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
Yes but the BE needs them for BCS points
for AQ status (same reason they brought in TCU). If they lose them before the end of the 2013 season, they lose whatever points they can get from them. Since any replacement would bring in less, it’s not something the BE would like to do. The BE would be foolish to let them go early, but of course when has that ever stopped them?
Letting Syracuse and Pitt go would also signal to West Virginia, UConn and Rutgers to get out while the getting is good. The conference loses any leverage it has in keeping those three programs in the fold if they let SU and Pitt walk.
Editor, BC Interruption
Good point
The BE needs to keep Pitt and SU around in order to create the time needed to restock the conference. The schools you mention know this, letting them go creates a run on the bank situation.
by ev on Sep 22, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
ND to ACC
As I’ve posted previously, would love to see this happen.
To be honest, I don’t think the Irish move unless we realize the doomsday scenario of 4-ish BCS conferences (or when the home of ND’s non-revenue sports in the BE truly becomes untenable). With that said, I think the argument for a marriage between the ACC/ND is compelling, not just from an academic/athletic standpoint, but also in terms of alumni base. ND has significant density along the I-93 corridor that would make an east coast conference relationship just as compelling as preserving ties to Michigan, MSU and Purdue.
Current/projected national demographic shifts further the value of the ACC’s geographic footprint (to our Catholic brethren in South Bend).
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 22, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions
Does the BE losing football create a loss of home for their non-revenue sports?
Wouldn’t the BE just become another a non-football conference, basically what the Irish use them for anyway? Everyone claims a large ND alumni base, you would think this is a 50K student school. Did you know, ND’s second largest alumni association is in LA. The first of course is in Chicago. Moving to the ACC creates huge scheduling issues for ND and removes them from their main recruiting and their largest donor base.
by ev on Sep 22, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah yes, the subway alumni
We get to met thousands of them every other year in LA. I prefer the real thing, those are good guys and some are good friends.
by ev on Sep 22, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair point regarding alumni. Was thinking more about the geography of their fanbase (so I misspoke).
Scheduling wise, though tight, feel like an OOC schedule of USC, Michigan and a rotation of service academy/Stanford/MSU/Purdue annually could still satisfy most of their current priorities.
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 22, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s more than just threatening the Irish’s home for its hoops and non-revs. A move to 4×16, although very unlikely, will also hurt the Irish’s home scheduling.
The ACC will most assuredly move to a nine game schedule now. – BC, Pittsburgh
The Big Ten is moving to a nine-game schedule. – Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue
The Pac-12 is already there. – Stanford, USC
Once the Big 12 gets back to 12, and the SEC finally gets to 14, they will likely move to 12 as well.
The move by the five BCS AQ conferences all to a nine-game conference schedule will impact how Notre Dame schedules games.
Editor, BC Interruption
Yes but ND doesn't need a lot of AQs series to fill it's schedule
and picking from four 16 team conferences would still fill that up. Remember they are doing a 7-4-1 model, they only have so much room anyway. That model requires a certain number of one way games, games usually filled by non-AQs and low level AQs. They just signed a new contract with Stanford that goes through 2019 and a 25 year contract with Michigan. IF they were to move to any conference, they only get three OOC. USC takes one, Navy takes another that leaves them only one to move around the country. Who wants to play that schedule anyway?
by ev on Sep 22, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
“Yes but ND doesn’t need a lot of AQs series to fill it’s schedule and picking from four 16 team conferences would still fill that up.”
Notre Dame plays 10 AQs in 2011, 10 in 2012, 8 in 2013, 8 in 2014, 9 in 2015 and 9 in 2016. I wouldn’t exactly say that the Irish don’t need many AQ series to fill its schedule; it’s almost exclusively against AQs and independents.
I really don’t care one way or the other. The only point is that the 4×16 model will limit the Irish’s ability to play all of its traditional rivals annually.
Editor, BC Interruption
Yes but 8-9 for ND isn't that many
They have two with the Pac12, and three with the Big10 locked. They can pick up another Pac12 team anytime they want since USC and Stanford play them mid or late season. You can’t tell me they can’t find 2-3 out of the ACC and Big12. Scheduling will never be a problem for ND, even with super conferences. Well it won’t be until they join one, then the real problems start.
by ev on Sep 22, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
7-4-1 a thing of the past
we dont schedule 7-4-1 anymore, set up for 6-5-1 for the next 5 years or so.
more on the point, when talking to my recent alum brethren they seem surprisingly ok with joining the ACC. I think I’m ok with it as well if necessary and we all would hate the big 10.
If push comes to shove, ND to the ACC seems to make a lot more sense than the Big 10. Notre Dame rules in the Midwest, so playing the majority of their games both at home and on the road in the same region doesn’t really satisfy any recruiting needs. Makes more sense to go to the ACC because they would travel up and down the eastern seaboard, play a game in LA vs. USC and do whatever they want with the other two OOC games. Not to mention that the ACC houses many of their traditional rivals anyway. Pittsburgh, Miami, Georgia Tech and even BC to a lesser extent.
by chicagofire1871 on Sep 22, 2011 11:41 PM EDT reply actions
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