Conference Realignment: UConn Seeking ACC Membership?
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 3:20 PM EDT
in Conference Expansion
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The conference expansion gods giveth, and they taketh away?
According to ESPN's Andy Katz, the University of Connecticut's leadership is actively seeking membership in the Atlantic Coast Conference in response to the rapid departures of Syracuse and Pittsburgh.
"UConn president Susan Herbst is aggressively pursuing membership in the ACC to become the 15th or 16th member institution in the conference, according to a source with direct knowledge with UConn's situation.
According to the source, Herbst was having conversations recently but in light of Pittsburgh's and Syracuse's defections from the Big East, the talks have accelerated in the last 48 hours."
UConn actively seeking to get out of the conference only further destabilizes a Big East Conference that is already on its last legs. If the Big East completely falls in on itself, we may see Pittsburgh and Syracuse as members of the ACC well before the Big East imposed 27-month notification window, as there will be no football conference left to hold both schools to such a time frame.
With Texas to the Pac-12 reportedly gaining some steam, it would make some sense that the ACC would pick up the remaining East Coast all-sports programs and move to 16. That said, UConn and for sake of argument, Rutgers, don't offer much value to the conference after the ACC already pilfered Pitt and Syracuse, so the conference's best course of action may be to stand pat and stay at 14 (for now). I'm clearly biased here, but I see no reason to offer UConn and Rutgers a life raft given that they make such a fuss about Miami and Boston College's move to the ACC back in 2003-04 and both offer only incremental value-add to the conference.
Keep in mind sometimes karma is a bitch.
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I suppose I dont have the perspective down here in the mid-Atlantic that you guys have but I think UCONN would be a great addition. As far as the whole they didn’t want us to leave in 03 thing, nobody from the Big East wanted the three original ship jumpers to leave but they would all do so given the chance. I don’t see it as a reason to hold a grudge.
As for the State University of New Jersey I dont see them adding anything Cuse, Pitt, and UCONN don’t already as far fanbases go and they just don’t have a quality product on the field.
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time I do what I have to."
by bluecollarhokie on Sep 18, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Rutgers at least gives the ACC a foothold in NYC and a college football program with more than 12 years of history (regardless of quality of said history). UConn is a basketball-first school that has a fledgling football program and no real TV market to speak of. There’s no telling what the long-term prospects of UConn basketball are after Calhoun hangs them up.
Plus BC has no incentive to let UConn join the fold and build up a program that can steal some of the eyeballs and spotlight in New England.
Editor, BC Interruption
haha
Plus BC has no incentive to let UConn join the fold and build up a program that can steal some of the eyeballs and spotlight in New England.
We already have!
Yeah, you really sent the Nielsen ratings off the charts with that fiesta Bowl trip and Friday night game against future conference mate Iowa State.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
No you haven't.
No matter how much we suck here at BC, we will still get more viewers for football games.
My Twitter @totheights
Hah
UCan’t. What a joke.
Hoping beyond belief they are stuck playing Iowa State and Baylor for the indefinite future…
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
in what has been an awful month or so for bc
this makes me so happy. i hope uconn applies and gets denied and the acc picks up two other great academic and athletic institutions. karma really is a bitch.
I agree especially when it comes to Rutgers. UConn adds strength for basketball and is a push when it comes to football. Rutgers adds ZERO when it comes to football or basketball. I would much rather see USF than Rutgers.
The best course is for the ACC to wait now. Texas and or Kansas may fall into the ACC’s lap. They may not fit geographically but they bring football and basketball power. If not so be it and the ACC gets UConn and Rutgers as a worst case scenario.
I still don’t think there’s a rush to move to 16. This would just add two more mouths to feed and both would be incremental value-add. Let’s figure out how 14 works before setting out and conquering 16, especially if we aren’t getting Texas and Kansas (which it doesn’t appear the conference is).
Editor, BC Interruption
AGREE!
I think the ACC needs to hold its power for a bit. Today, the Big Ten is unassailable, but what if five years down the road something fundamental changes (OSU and Michigan terrible for extended time and/or major sanctions)? If ACC ever had opportunity to grab ND and PSU, you’d want room.
Exactly
This conference has expanded just four times – GT, FSU, Miami / VT / BC, Syracuse / Pitt – in the last 30+ years. Despite how quickly this latest expansion escalated, these are not decisions that are made on a whim.
Rutgers and UConn could still join the ACC, but nothing has to be rushed if you are the ACC. The ACC is holding all the cards right now. Period.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we raid TCU from the Big East? If we get Texas and TCU, that’d be pretty sweet.
by polarbearbrother on Sep 18, 2011 4:02 PM EDT reply actions
Just a reminder
Obviously this is mostly due to our D being on the field way too much, but I’d like to remind everyone Kuechly is currently on pace for 232 tackles. For reference, yes, that is the same number often found between 231 and 233.
by DCash on Sep 18, 2011 4:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
ACC
This must be killing Calhoun as he vowed not to play BC, V Tech or Miami again for abandoning the Big East…..it couldn’t happen to nicer guy……
Calhoun
In all seriousness, UConn’s biggest asset is basketball, and with Calhoun on the verge of retirement, there is guarantee that their biggest long-term asset, basketball (which inherently is less of a value added than comperable football success) is put into question.
BC-UCan’t beef aside, I really don’t think they are a valuable long term asset with football driving league revenue and revenue driving decision making.
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions
*won’t be put into question.
/type fail
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Right
The ACC has a ton of option value right now by holding at 14. Can wait out and see what happens with the Big Ten. May be able to lure Notre Dame and Penn State, or Vanderbilt and Kentucky into the fold.
There is no value in expanding to 16 today or tomorrow. Removes any option value the conference has at present.
Hastily adding Rutgers and UConn shuts the door on the conference taking in more valuable members down the road. Would be foolish on the part of the Presidents to expand today or tomorrow after just announcing the additions of Pitt and Syracuse.
Keep in mind this is a conference that has expanded just four times in the last 30+ years. Despite how quickly the SU and Pitt additions came and went, these aren’t decisions that are made on a whim. The ACC is currently operating from a position of strength.
Editor, BC Interruption
The ACC is currently operating from a position of strength.
Exactly.
UConn and RU could very well one day receive an invite, but bottom line will be: pursue the more valuable institutional properties before moving on to BigEast re-treads.
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
SMH at this post
Where to start?
“UConn and for sake of argument, Rutgers, don’t offer much value to the conference”
Is this a joke? Maybe you don’t watch basketball, but UConn is the defending national champion. UConn has more NBA players than almost any school. UConn is also the defending Big East football champion. BC-UConn was a good rivalry and will be a good rivalry again.
Rutgers lies between the 2 biggest markets on the East Coast, neither of which is currently represented in the ACC (Syracuse pretending to bring NYC to the ACC is a farce, and Pitt is further from Philly than Maryland). It’s also the state school in a state that is one of the top football/basketball recruiting factories in the country. Bringing in Rutgers also brings back a team that BC had played in football for 20+ years before BC left for the ACC.
“karma is a bitch.”
Childish and spiteful. This was 7 years ago, get over it already! DeFillippo’s refusal to play UConn is merely another indication of his idiocy, and not at all a reason that UConn will be kept out of the ACC. Get real. BC would’ve joined the lawsuit had it not been one of the original invitees of the ACC. Syracuse’s AD at the time said BC’s departure showed that “handshakes mean nothing” and Pitt was less-than friendly as well, yet both were invited into the ACC. Thankfully the people in charge at the ACC aren’t as spiteful and shortsighted as this post was.
1) I think the ACC is doing quite well in the basketball department with or without UConn, wouldn’t you say?
2) If Syracuse pretends to bring NYC to the ACC, you consider UConn to deliver that market? UConn is stuck between two cities with no real TV market of its own. You do realize Rutgers is located in New Jersey and not Pennsylvania, right? You don’t get on TV in Philadelphia adding Rutgers.
3) Do you really expect GDF to turn around and schedule UConn in football after the school and the state AG personally sued you? Talk about childish and spiteful. Can you say with a straight face you would turn around and line the pocket of a school and a program that sued you personally? Calhoun has made an equal vow never to play BC in basketball, a move that is also “childish and spiteful” you might say.
This post wasn’t nearly as spiteful and shortsighted as UConn’s level of desperation at present.
Editor, BC Interruption
1. It is doing well. Take UConn and it’s unstoppable.
2. UConn sits in a market (Hartford/New Haven) that’s in the Top 35 in the Nielsen ratings, at last check. If you want to take the position that UConn adds nothing in the New York market (which requires ignoring a multi-year deal with a major basic cable sports channel in NYC), their own market is pretty good.
3. Since the lawsuit (filed, not by UConn, but by the AG at the time), UConn/CT has changed: it’s president, athletic director, football coach, governor and attorney general.
We are waiting on Notre Dame. If the Irish don’t come over, sure, we’ll take a flier out on you guys and Rutgers.
West Virginia already has its bags packed for the SEC.
Editor, BC Interruption
Everyone's waiting on Notre Dame
What makes you think they’re waiting on the ACC?
The Notre Dame situation is different now. With the Big East breaking apart, the Irish may no longer have a home for its non-revenue and basketball programs. The ACC could become the Irish’s home for the non-revs and hoops. Expanding first to 14 helps pave the way for Notre Dame to join as an all-sports less football member, because ND is no longer likely to stick with the Big East in its current configuration.
Editor, BC Interruption
Put in terms you may understand, when the Big East falls in on itself, Notre Dame will be in the market for a conference. Whether that includes football or not is another story, but it will still be in the market for a conference and the ACC and Big 12 are the Irish’s two likely landing spots.
No way Delany puts up with the Irish’s one-foot in, one-foot out stance. The ACC has signaled that they are willing to accommodate Notre Dame by first expanding to 14 and not straight to 16.
Editor, BC Interruption
1) The ACC is doing well, yes. But it wasn’t the best basketball conference last year. Adding UConn to Pitt/Cuse makes it unquestionably #1, by far. Why wouldn’t you want this? Just because you’re doing well as a conference doesn’t make further improvement unwise (hence the Pitt/Cuse addition). Honestly I don’t get your point here.
2) Agreed, UConn does not deliver NYC either. UConn brings basketball prestige and competitive football. Rutgers comes the closest to bringing the NYC market. Rutgers is also only 60 miles from Philly, obviously there are hordes of Rutgers grads in South Jersey. No it’s not a Philly team but NJ has a huge population and like I said brings legit recruiting clout in both basketball and football.
3) Maybe you aren’t aware but Pitt was also a party in that lawsuit. So yes, obviously I’m willing to line with a school that sued my school, since I’m happy that we have Pitt. And obviously you are too, since your posts are very pro-Pitt expansion. Nice try. We get it, you hate UConn, just admit it and move on.
"We get it, you hate UConn, just admit it and move on."
Exactly.
Look, if you don’t like UConn because they’re UConn, whatever. But to say something as ridiculous as “I don’t know what value they bring”?
When you rid yourself of the delusion that basketball matters in this equation, you will begin to understand it.
Look At It Any Other Way
Look at Olympic Sports.
Look at basketball.
Look at football (ok, maybe not this year).
Look at academics (UConn is improving in every ratings system, and would be in the top half of the ACC).
Look at location.
Look at market.
Location
East Hartford and Storrs, Connecticut. Clearly tops on everyone’s vacation list.
Editor, BC Interruption
One Idea
Rutgers and UConn have long-term lucrative exclusivity deals with SNY (Mets network, on basic cable in all of NYC, most of NJ and CT). SNY also has a deal with the Big East.
If the Big East collapses and the ACC takes in RU and UConn? They get to keep their deals with SNY (or don’t, but it would be an easy move either way) and the ACC can RAYCOM SNY. Easy distribution in NYC, in HD, on basic cable.
ESPN owns all-tier rights to ACC games with the latest TV contract. Raycom is not in the picture. Raycom has to buy rights from ESPN now.
ESPN will not have difficulty broadcasting games in the NYC market with the additions of Pitt and Syracuse.
Editor, BC Interruption
And what does BC have...
Hockey?? hahaha
by JJSHusky25 on Sep 18, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fourth winningness private school in college football history behind Notre Dame, USC and Miami. Your program has been playing I-A ball for a dozen years.
If you fail to see the value in BC, Syracuse and Pitt over UConn, I don’t know what to tell you. Football is driving the conference expansion party bus. UConn is Villanova with just a 12 year head start in football.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
UConn is Villanova with just a 12 year head start in football.
Exactly.
Football is the ultimate driver in conference allignment, and UConn barely delivers that. End of story.
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Rumor was that GDF was pushing for Villanova’s inclusion, but the Wildcats are a nonstarter without the football side of the equation. The southern schools like FSU and Clemson likely want no part of playing in a 30k MLS soccer stadium.
Editor, BC Interruption
PPL Park is nicer than Alumni. Yeah the capacity would be smaller, but it’s a much better venue than what is in Chestnut Hill. I’d pay for seat license fees if BC played in a stadium as nice as PPL.
by chicagofire1871 on Sep 19, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Have to disagree
My dad and my brother are Union season ticket holders.
Yes, it is a beautiful stadium.
Yes, it would be an absolute embarrassment to the ACC if programs like Florida State, Virginia Tech and Clemson were forced to play college football at PPL Park.
Editor, BC Interruption
In other words, this is a sure fire way of scaring off both Florida State and Clemson. Both programs want no part of being in a conference with Villanova football. Both want to improve the quality of ACC football, not decrease it.
From the Nova fans I’ve talked to though, it sounds like they are willing to give up the dream of I-A football if it meant a non-football invite to the ACC.
Editor, BC Interruption
Marginal value-add explained
Clearly the answer is simply that “I hate UConn” and we’ve all ignored the facts in this matter:
1. The ACC expanded to Syracuse and Pittsburgh first, over Rutgers, UConn and a host of other schools. Clearly very bright individuals at the highest levels of the administrations of the 12 ACC schools believe that both schools provide more value to the conference than either Rutgers or UConn. The ACC could have just as soon expanded to 16 and added UConn and Rutgers and called it a day. Stop and ask yourself why this wasn’t the case.
2. Each of UConn and Rutgers would have to add roughly 15-20m in added value to the conference’s next TV deal in order for expansion to make it worthwhile for existing members. If they don’t, each ACC program is poorer for it. The current deal is for $13m / year / program, and is set to go up if the conference is able to renegotiate. For as valuable as UConn’s basketball program is, the fact is that the school has a fledgling I-A football program that plays in a 40k seat stadium in East Hartford. That’s not attractive to the ACC. Neither is Rutgers, a school with loads more history on the gridiron but one of the worst programs all-time. The ACC and its TV partners, ESPN, care more about TV viewership that television markets and households. ESPN is a national network, and will make more money with more eyeballs over adding TV households because they already have most TV households nationally. As such, the value of Rutgers to the ACC is much lower than it is for the B1G Ten, who has a very different revenue model with the BTN.
Put simply, there is a reason the ACC first expanded to 14 instead of poaching Rutgers and UConn and moving to 16 straight away. The conference is still very much in a wait-and-see mode and I guarantee you that Rutgers and UConn are not 1a and 1b on the short list of expansion candidates. If you put aside your feelings and think about the situation rationally, you’ll understand why Syracuse, Pittsburgh and West Virginia (which appears SEC-bound) provide more value to a conference than either UConn or Rutgers.
Drops mike. Walks away.
Editor, BC Interruption
1) Where did I say UConn was the ACC’s first choice over Cuse and Pitt? All I said is they add a lot to the conference. You said the opposite, and it was a ridiculous thing to say. Stop trying to get out of your absurd contention that UConn brings nothing to the table with stuff like “Cuse and Pitt were the first choice” (irrelevant) and “UConn sued BC so UConn had no chance at being in the ACC” (hilarious since Pitt also sued BC).
2) There’s a million reasons why the ACC only expanded to 14 at this time. And none of them mean Rutgers and UConn are toast in their desire to join the ACC.
The school does not bring $20m / year in viewership. Period. The ACC is now operating from a position of strength. Why would they add a school that provides less value than the average ACC school?
Editor, BC Interruption
I’d be interested to know how you determined that UConn does not bring $20 m/year in viewership?
2011 National Champs in Men's Basketball
START NEBRICH
18-1
1967: Embrace it
I’d be interested in you telling me how UConn does …
Last year’s Fiesta Bowl was the second least watched BCS bowl game of the BCS era. The football program plays a 40k stadium. UConn football is regularly on Friday night because no one is watching.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh
I figured you had some kind of information or calculation to determine the value a school brings to a conference since you wrote with such authority about that number.
2011 National Champs in Men's Basketball
START NEBRICH
18-1
1967: Embrace it
by derbyguy on Sep 18, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
UConn and Rutgers do add value. Marginal value add, and not enough to make financial sense right now.
Editor, BC Interruption
UConn and Rutgers were not added before cuse and pitt because they didn’t defect and leave the BIg East. Cuse and pitt actively applied for acc membership. If UConn had applied before they would already be in the acc.
UConn is ranked ahead of cuse and rutgers in academics and tied with pitt according to the latest us news and rankings.
Do you really think this decision is made as a First Come, First Serve one? The reason Syracuse and Pitt applied is because the ACC determined that they were the most logical expansion candidates. Not UConn. Not Rutgers.
These schools don’t just “publicly apply” to conferences and hope they get in. These schools submit paperwork because the conference let’s them know they will be accepted.
Your assertion that UConn would already be in if they applied before Syracuse and Pitt is absurd.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If UConn had applied before they would already be in the acc.
You serious??
I think the specious comment in the first paragraph negates your point in the second…
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
FCFS
Conference expansion … clearly done on a first come, first serve basis.
Editor, BC Interruption
Hah “rolling admission.” Gimme a break.
by Eagle in Brighton on Sep 19, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Another possibility
If the dominoes fall the wrong way for UConn, might they just abandon their football program and stay with the Big East basketball schools? UConn didn’t pay for the stadium in Hartford, and it isn’t on campus. Doesn’t seem that hard for them to simply walk away from the program if it makes more sense than C-USA or some odd Big East football frankenstein which is essentially C-USA redux.
Or move back down to I-AA.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 19, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
444 committee
The ACC committee they formed last year surely ranked schools they wanted to get up to 14 then up to 16. Not to say UConn won’t end up in the ACC, but clearly they have a preferred list, at which Pitt and Cuse were in the top 4. Probably didn’t help at all, that suing thing Connecticut did. Guaranteed one negative vote from that (the AD COnn personally sued) and a stigma of not being nice to play with affecting other votes. Neither do 4k Fiesta Bowl ticket sales, either.
The rumor is BC has the votes to block UConn. My guess is BC, Miami, VT and the new additions.
There’s also no incentive for Pitt and Syracuse to take on either school. Syracuse recruits NJ hard. Why would they want to prop up a regional rival in a critical recruiting state?
Editor, BC Interruption
Considering Pitt was a plaintiff right along side UConn, I’m sure the suit had nothing to at all do with it. I can’t believe this “lawsuit will keep UConn out” farce keeps getting peddled here.
The lawsuit will not ...
No votes will.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it still 75% needed for approval? If so the Uconn would desperately need 11 votes in the 14 school format. Four no kills it. I can see GDF getting Cuse and Pitt to declare fealty to him on this, since he either was or pretends he was instrumental in getting the ACC to look north again. Little doubt Donna Shalala goes along with what BC prefers here, since she’s been Miami’s prez the whole time.
Right
Rumor is BC has the no votes to kill this move. BC, Syracuse, Pitt and Miami (who UConn also sued) are four easy No votes.
Again, BC has no incentive to vote UConn in. Syracuse has no incentive to let a regional recruiting rival like Rutgers in.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Sep 18, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
John 8:32
You can “block” the truth but the truth will still set you free.
I’m no fan of adding UCONN, but assuming ND and Texas are off the table, what other programs make sense in the 15 and 16 spot?
Kansas?
Missouri?…
UCONN isn’t a great addition, but assuming we’re all headed to 16, but are the other options?
by chicagofire1871 on Sep 19, 2011 1:11 AM EDT reply actions
This is a big assumption. We’re not all rushing to 16 so long as Notre Dame is still in play. B1G will not rush to expand. SEC has to justify additional mouths to feed. Both the ACC and SEC are in the same position. There are few attractive candidates that make 16 a slam dunk.
Editor, BC Interruption
I agree, the league could have decided to go to 16 when it grabbed Pitt & Syracuse, but it didn’t … it went to 14. A league of 14 teams can work fine.
Moving from 12 to 14, or 14 to 16, there needs to be strong justification for the change. Pitt & Syracuse brought numerous positives for the ACC – that combined with the “solidarity raise” in the exit fee shows everyone that the ACC teams are not going to any other conference.
Moving from 14 to 16 would require a strong academic and athletic school … preferably one with a very strong football program. The only school that is a great geographic fit (but very unlikely to leave its conference) is Penn State.
Adding any school from outside the east coast would have to justify additional travel costs for the schools and travel time for the student-athletes and staff. I’m not sure there are many (any?) schools out there west of the mountains that might qualify, other than maybe Notre Dame if it included its football program in the ACC.
Correct
Penn State and Notre Dame are the only two slam dunks.
A case could be made for Kentucky and Vanderbilt, but it is very unlikely that a current SEC member is going to look elsewhere.
Editor, BC Interruption
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