Big East Expansion "Dream Scenario" Includes Adding TCU, Boston College, Maryland And Villanova/Central Florida
by Brian Favat on Aug 3, 2011 7:30 AM EDT
in Conference Expansion
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PrintSo about that open invitation thing ...
Turns out the reported open invitation is all part a larger Big East "dream scenario" that includes the conference adding TCU, Boston College, Maryland and a 12th football member -- Villanova or Central Florida. That's according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Paul Zeise, who sat down with Pittsburgh athletic director Steve Pederson at Big East Media Day:
"I had a long talk with Steve Pederson today about what it is exactly that he and Oliver Luck and the rest of the athletic directors from football-playing schools really want and he made it simple -- they want a league where every single year they don't have to worry about losing members to other leagues and that means they need long-term stability.
[snip]
The dream scenario would be the current league, plus TCU and BC and Maryland and if three schools of that quality were added, then a 12th school could be a Villanova or Central Florida and the conference would clearly be better."
This setup, presumably, would be a much better "dream" setup for the conference than, say, luring Notre Dame away from football independence and adding the Irish as an all-sports conference member or poaching Penn State from the Big Ten.
So you just might be asking yourself how the Big East plans on counter-raiding the ACC and snatching up the conference's two northernmost, large market programs. Well, that's easy -- by throwing gobs and gobs of money at the two programs:
"That brings the question - what exactly could the Big East offer Maryland and Boston College that they don't already have in the ACC?
Well, money, and that's where the high stakes poker game with television networks that the Big East - at the prodding of Pederson and company - comes into play."
Hey, if the promise of dollar signs from yet-to-be-signed TV media rights contracts could help Dan Beebe keep the old Big 12 gang together, why couldn't it help the Big East lure BC and Maryland away from their cushy digs in the ACC?
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makes me angry at Big East and wants it to go away. Give their BCS invite to the MWC, and please please please have ESPN shut up about that conference during basketball season. With 16+ members, its not surprising that at least 4 of them are in the top 25.
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
Big East Plan
1. New TV Contract
2. ???
3. Poach BC and Maryland from ACC
by CSOM_97 on Aug 3, 2011 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Big question
I wonder if GDF will even begin to have a conversation with the BE. My guess is no. He made his mark on BC by making the deal to go to the ACC, why would he just turn around and change his mind 5 years later? Marinatto can keep dreaming, I just dont see this ever happening.
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by A.J Black on Aug 3, 2011 8:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
NO.
BC as an institution has zero interest in this. None.
by CSOM_97 on Aug 3, 2011 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
... because except for the money, it's clear BC in the ACC was a bad idea?
At least, it was a bad idea without another northeastern school. And you guys know it, and every school you actually care about playing except ND is in the Big East (this is also true of Penn State, but they have $BIG_TEN instead of $ACC; with the right TV deal, we might be able to outbid the ACC, but not the Big Ten).
"every school you actually care about playing except ND is in the Big East"
1. Notre Dame
2. Miami (Florida)
3. Syracuse
4. Virginia Tech
BC plays all four of those programs regularly now. What am I missing here?
Editor, BC Interruption
I was going for football programs that we have former ties with in the Big East, but yeah, add Clemson.
Editor, BC Interruption
in fairness...
…we tried to join with a Northern team and ’Cuse royally screwed it up.
That said, no, it wasn’t a bad idea. Boston has a lot in common with the east coast cities which dominate the ACC. Short, direct flights are available everywhere in conference except Clemson, Blacksburgh and Tallahassee. It is easy and fun to travel to our conference-mates.
BC has a budding friendly rivalry with Clemson, a budding unfriendly rivalry with NC State, and historical rivalries with Miami and VTech.
BC wants to be in a conference that takes academics seriously, and ACC schools do. BC wants exposure to the growing population centers in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast coast.
The ONLY school left in football Big East BC fans want to play is ’Cuse, and we are doing that anyway.
And oh by the way… yeah, the money/stability is also very important.
by CSOM_97 on Aug 3, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They did?
we tried to join with a Northern team and ’Cuse royally screwed it up
how so? I thought Syr was ready to join until Virginia Tech was forced into the mix?
I know Boeheim is/was/will be a d1ck, but did the school screw BC? and did they screw us royally? how so? I am not all that familar with the details on this
not an Editor, BC Interruption
Short answer
First, by “Syracuse” I am lumping together all Syracuse actors. Someone at ‘Cuse with an agenda spilled the beans to the press prematurely, which kicked off the whole mess. I am pretty sure everyone thinks that was Boeheim, but I don’t know if that was ever proven. From that followed the Virginia in-state mess, the NC State turncoat vote, and the BC lawsuit.
‘Cuse most definitely got cold feet shortly thereafter, and ended up publicly stating they would prefer to stay in the Big East as then constituted. Miami and BC never said this – we wanted the move to happen. I do not know whether ’Cuse’s AD was trying to play it both ways, or whether ‘Cuse determined they wanted to kill the plan after internal discussions. I believe the latter though, and I believe it was Boeheim dropping the hammer that changed ’Cuse’s mind.
The original plan was preferable for everybody not named VTech, and it was Syracuse who drove the train off-track originally.
That is a very condensed version of a very long tale. Really, somebody ought to do a book on it at some point.
by CSOM_97 on Aug 3, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hmmm . . . i am going to need to read the book
someone at Syr leaking info screwed us? That does not sound like a screwing. I am guessing Syr had to posture that they wanted to stay in the BE after it was clear they were going to be bumped by VT. Thank God, it was Syr and not BC that was bumped! I wonder how close a call it was as between bumping Syr vs BC?
I really do not know why people (not you Hoya) remain so bitter about a few lawsuits…Lawsuits are not that big of a deal.
not an Editor, BC Interruption
no
First, I said ’Cuse screwed up the original plan, not screwed us.
Second, ’Cuse attitude changes were not after-the-fact posturing.
Third, not that close (see above), though the whole situation was scary for a bit.
Fourth, the lawsuit and press vitriol stained BC quite unfairly, and were very, very personal. That said, that really wasn’t the point of my post.
how do you know this?
Second, ’Cuse attitude changes were not after-the-fact posturing
not an Editor, BC Interruption
the whole affair was very, very public and heavily reported
And in addition to following all of that quite closely, I also had access to inside information at the time.
Why are you being argumentative about this? You started off with: “I am not all that familar with the details on this”
The idea that Syr “screwed up the original plan” does not really follow from what you are saying. I am not arguing (asking for support is not being argumentative). I am trying to learn some info that you seemed to be knowledgable about. I will have to wait for the book, mr sea psalm
not an Editor, BC Interruption
This argument is insane
BC in the ACC was not a bad idea. It was, to put it bluntly, in my opinion the best thing that happened to BC athletics other than the matriculation of Doug Flutie and Matt Ryan and the hiring of Jerry York.
Better opponents, better opponents’ fanbases, better road trips, and we have remained just as competitive in the two marquee sports, which raising our national profile in several others like men’s and women’s soccer, women’s lacrosse, and even baseball.
There’s no school in the Big East I care about playing in any sport, except perhaps Georgetown in basketball. And if we were to leave the ACC, I’d miss Clemson and Virginia Tech and Florida State and NC State (only because of the annual opportunity to beat TOB).
by Expatriate in Tampa on Aug 3, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Importance
The importance of the move may be up there with the split from Holy Cross when they went 1-AA in football. Look at the national brand that BC has become versus the more regional brand that Holy Cross is. The move to the ACC may end up being a decision of that magnitude in the long run.
Psycho ex-girlfriends don’t want BC to better themselves. They want the Eagles to continue to slum it with the other non-football playing Catholic schools just because we share a religion and it benefits them.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Aug 4, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just because we share a religion
Very flip remark. BC embraces all and is catholic (small c) in its approach , but it is, was and remains a Catholic (capital C) institution. Why do you think ND even plays BC?
Because they are the only two remaining Catholic schools that play Division I-A football.
My point is at this point in our school’s history, we have more in common with Virginia, Wake Forest, North Carolina and Duke from an academic and forward-looking vision perspective than we do with the non-football playing Catholic schools in the Big East.
Why do you think Notre Dame refuses to join the Big East for football? Because the university’s ambitions and desire to grow the brand nationally outweighs associating with the non-Catholic football members of the conference.
Editor, BC Interruption
Never forget or dismiss your roots, or BC’s. BC plays ND becuase they are each Catholic. Only real reason to play.
G’Town is alot like BC. PC has a solid two-way relationship with BC. We have far more in common with G’Town, PC, SJU and Seton Hall than Clemson or NCSU or VTech or FSU, except Sports. Don’t be dissing our Catholic bros. Academically and sports-wise, we have a lot in common with Duke, UNC, Wake and UVA, but culturally, not so much.
its funny
I am not from the Northeast, and I literally know nothing about Holy Cross. I didn’t even know it existed until we played them in hoops for a few years. I still don’t really know anything about it, except I’ve heard on BC message boards it is supposed to be a decent school.
Seconded
Not from Massachusetts and not Catholic (though I married into Catholicism). Had no idea Holy Cross existed until BC played them in hoops and Bill Simmons started being a douche nozzle.
Editor, BC Interruption
Same here (Thirded?)
Coming from the mid-west I had heard of BC because they were playing ND in football. Holy Cross wasn’t on my radar until we played them in BBall.
wow!!
You guys are mega-sheltered or incredibly young. You know nothing about Holy Cross?? shocking!
ever heard of Bob Cousy? Tommy Heinsohn? How about Gordy Lockbaum?
Or Clarence Thomas?
Or the strangest one of them all: Timothy Leary, the LSD-pioneering Harvard Professor, attended Holy Cross before transferring to West Point.
But it is a sad commentary on the fall of Holy Cross. In the 1970s and into the 1980s, Holy Cross was considered to be a better academic school than BC, and harder to get into than BC. I would say, at one point — long ago — HC was a bigger BC rival than BU or even ND. But its demise is not just about sports, It is in Worcester, for one. Lots of other, more important, reasons why BC rose and HC fell. Too bad, it is a very high quality institution.
“You guys are mega-sheltered or incredibly young.”
Or simply not from Massachusetts and not knowledgeable about small, regional insignificant members of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities.
Editor, BC Interruption
I am not from Mass or even from New England either.
HC is #32 in USNWR for national liberal arts collegs; BC is #31 among Universities. Surprised as a BC grad you would be so unaware of HC.
I also would not call HC insignificant among Jesuits Schools. In fact, HC is the #3 Jesuit school in the USA after G’Town and BC, and #4 in all Catholic Colleges (behind GTown, ND, BC). It is far better than Villanova, Fordham, Gonzaga etc.
I picked my university based on academics – so the fact that Holy Cross is sandwiched between Bucknell and Kenyon in those rakings (quick – without looking it up, where are those two colleges located?) academically means that it wasn’t on my radar. And since they haven’t been a powerhouse in sports in my lifetime (the only reason I know of Gonzaga is their deep runs in March), it should not come as a surprise that HC wasn’t in the running when applying to schools.
Bucknell is in Pennsylvania and Kenyon is in Africa.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Aug 4, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“HC is #32 in USNWR for national liberal arts collegs; BC is #31 among Universities. Surprised as a BC grad you would be so unaware of HC.”
Who said I’m still unaware of Holy Cross “as a BC grad?” CSOM_97, AdamBC and my comments all stated that we were unaware of Holy Cross before arriving at Boston College. How is this a shocking development?
I didn’t consider attending a liberal arts college coming out of high school, and you are surprised that I wasn’t familiar with Holy Cross as an 18 year old because of what one stud basketball player did on the hardwood in the 1960s?
Editor, BC Interruption
Corrected
I didn’t consider attending a liberal arts college coming out of high school, and you are surprised that I wasn’t familiar with Holy Cross as an 18 year old because of what one stud basketball player did on the hardwood from 1946-1950?
Editor, BC Interruption
you guys must have been hanging under momma’s apron wearing dark sunglasses and listening to your ipods before you applied to college. Wow. very sheltered/cloistered worlds. If it’s not on ESPN, it does not exist!
Adam — you made your college list based on sports? Good Lord. And yes, Adam I know several Bucknell and Kenyon grads. Fine schools.
Seriously, are you all from the sticks — Iowa, Indiana, Buffalo, that sort of thing?
ps. Brian — as sports blogger, you really should know that Bob Cousy is a legend — more legend than Larry Legend
AdamBC — “Surprised” you didn’t consider attending Indiana State over BC, you know, with Larry Legend putting the Sycamores basketball program on the map and all.
Editor, BC Interruption
Seriously, did you or a relative attend the Cross?
Could you be overstating the national profile of a school like Holy Cross any more than you already are?
What non-sticks portion of the country are you from, waterwater?
Talk about “ignorant.” How about your denial that some high school kids want to matriculate at a highly respected national university for their undergrad education and didn’t consider attending a Top 35 liberal arts school in Worcester, Mass.
Editor, BC Interruption
Logic clearly not your strong point
What each of us started out saying was that we weren’t familiar with Holy Cross before attending BC, and the interesting juxtaposition of national branding versus regional branding which has arisen partly due to the differing decisions each school made regarding athletics.
You have somehow decided you need to defend Holy Cross’ honor and accuse us of being ignorant hicks because we didn’t know about Holy Cross. The whole POINT was that we didn’t know about it – it is much, much less of a national name than BC. There cannot be any serious debate about that.
Really?
The point, which is obviously sailing over your head, is that people growing up outside New England are not exposed to or aware of Holy Cross.
HC is very much a regional school these days (if it ever wasn’t). That does not make it bad – the same can be said for many outstanding small liberal arts colleges across the region.
You probably aren’t familiar with Trinity University in San Antonio, but it is a great school too.
But yeah, college sports is a great marketing tool, and one BC has used very effectively to become a national name, something which Holy Cross is not.
You guys are just unbelievable
Did you know that Forbes ranks BC as #26 best college in USA (that is colleges and univerities) here check it out. Forbes College Rankings An excellent accomplsihment we should all be proud of.
And while you are looking, go see who is ranked right behind BC. That’s right Holy Cross is #27. Can you at least tell me you are surprised?
You each really sound like the arrogant snots everyone says is at BC now-a-days. Really.
Only people from NE (sea pslam, I am not from NE) should be aware of Holy Cross??. Just BS. You guys really are uninformed.
HC is well known in academic circles, and has been well known for more than a century. And you are all so disrespectful of a fellow Jesuit insitution. (like this dumb dig by Sea Psalm — “HC is very much a regional school these days (if it ever wasn’t)” What uninformed smuggness.
BC has really gone to all your heads. BC is a great place, but it is not Harvard or Yale.
Comparing HC to Trinity of S.A. is a joke. That Trinity is not even listed in the top 200 colleges in USNWR whereas HC is # 31 — close to Bucknell, Bates, Colby, Colgate, Bryn Mawr, Barnard etc. (and comparably ranked to BC). You’ve heard of those schools, I trust.
You’re Welcome.
No More
Can we just stop bringing this whole BigEast topic up, it gets the same negative response every time and just takes up space on the front page that could be given to better / more interesting content.
We are beating a dead horse.
Mad Max Style… 2 Conferences enter one Conference leaves
16 team conference
Championship game will be called "The Civil War" held in DC
Northern Division
1.BC
2.Syracuse
3.UConn
4.Rutgers
5.Pitt
6.Penn State
7.West Virginia
8.Maryland
Southern Division
1.Duke
2.FSU
3.Miami
4.UNC
5.NC State
6.Virginia
7.VTech
8.Wake Forrest
Clemson (send to SEC)
GT (send to SEC)
Why you send GT an Clemson to SEC?
GT would never be allowed back into the SEC, and Clemson has made it known time and time again that we will not leave conference.
If you put together a 16 league conference, you got to look at it all. It would be a tough sell to get Penn State, but if you do, then I would not bring Pitt along, though I think to get WVU you’d need them. So if I was to drop two squads, I’d leave out to Rutgers and possibly UCONN. Move VT and UVA to the north, and add in GT & Clemson to the South. That would be fun league, I shall now be doing this this evening in NCAA 2012
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
Clemson is itching to join the SEC
and would do so in a heart beat.. See Shakin the Sotland post here a month or so back
not an Editor, BC Interruption
Though the Clemson administration still opposes the move.
Here is the link: http://www.bcinterruption.com/2011/7/15/2277733/college-football-conference-realignment-clemson-to-sec
Editor, BC Interruption
I still agree with you Brian
VTech makes much more sense for the SEC than Clemson. Of course irony would abound and I would suppose UVA could kill that move if they wanted to as a payback for the way VTech forced themselves in to the ACC.
I leave open the question of whether UVA or the ACC would want to fight it – I can see arguments both ways.
It's a great question
I actually could see the ACC cutting Virginia Tech loose assuming then that the SEC would no longer be targeting annexing the southern group of four from the ACC (Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida State and Miami).
The SEC annexing the southern four doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if you are Mike Slive, anyway, but losing just Virginia Tech seems like something the ACC would overcome (replacing with a post-Boeheim Cuse or Pitt). Can’t say the same if the SEC goes after four.
Editor, BC Interruption
yup
Pros:
Even though VTech has been the premier ACC football team since joining, the ACC might well prefer to lose them over any of those other four. Additionally, with FSU now widely presumed to be on the rise again, I don’t think there would be a ton of heartburn over the “marquee team” loss, as presumably FSU gives you the national title contender for relevancy.
VTech doesn’t add any tv eyes directly as its own market. ’Cuse or Pitt, or any of a handful of other options, would add new markets.
Cons:
Losing anyone makes the ACC appear weaker. The ACC might hope to fight to keep its shape and value as-is, or counter with its own expansion (let’s say ’Cuse, Pitt, UConn and either Rutgers or another FL school).
Perhaps the VTech’s football team brings enough TV $ value that the ACC would want to fight their leaving.
I suppose Hokies fans would tell you that they are relevant in the DC market, though it’s highly questionable in my mind. VT seems to deliver the DC market much the same way Syracuse delivers the NYC market.
The ideal scenario if the SEC picks off Virginia Tech and Texas A&M is for the ACC to reload with Syracuse to get back to 12. This was the original ACC expansion plan, marginally improves academics (Syracuse 55, Virginia Tech 69), adds another quality private school to the ACC and gives BC the only Big East football member that they are similar to / has a history worth saving.
This also improves the hoops equation. I can’t imagine Boeheim still has the same opinion / position he did on moving to the ACC now that he did 7-8 years ago, especially with talk of a Big East hoops/football split and/or a move to 20 basketball programs, both which dilutes the Big East basketball product.
Editor, BC Interruption
The Civil War
Oregon and Oregon State will play annually for this conference’s championship?
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Aug 3, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Big East sucks
I wouldn’t go back for anything. I’d go to the Pac-12 before I asked to join the Big East
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by totheights on Aug 3, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Rec'd, due to the hate
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
by AParker on Aug 3, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Two or more readers recommend a comment for awesomeness.
Actions > Rec at the bottom of each comment.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Aug 3, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
honestly i never knew
that BC fans were so opposed to being in the Big East. All you hear reported around the midwest is that they’re sorry they left and that it was a mistake. Glad that isn’t the case. The Big East would be much better with Kansas, Kansas State and Missouri if they could get them, anyway.
All you hear reported around the midwest is that they’re sorry they left and that it was a mistake. Glad that isn’t the case.
Seriously?
Editor, BC Interruption
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