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Boston College Suffering In Pro Market? A Word On BC Home Football Attendance

Boston College Eagles fans cheer on their team against the Weber State Wildcats on September 4 2010 at Alumni Stadium in Chestnut Hill Massachusetts. Boston College defeated Weber State 38-20.  (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)

Quick: name me another Division I college athletics program more regularly derided for its humble existence and for making a conference switch from the Big East to the ACC which, by the way, occurred over SEVEN years ago. I'd say you'd be hard pressed to come up with another school that's not Boston College.

For whatever reason, it seems like every few months some random dude with a keyboard and a internet platform is bemoaning the fact that:

-- Boston College is even in the ACC
-- That BC is a financial drain on the conference
-- That the Eagles belong back in the Big East, or
-- That the Eagles' football attendance woes are somehow tied to leaving the Big East.

All without doing the slightest bit of actual research.

Well this time, it's one of our very own that is trying to rewrite history, wishing the Eagles back to the Big East all because the AD paired up with GroupOn to offer discounted tickets to the BC vs. Northwestern game.

This argument is downright baffling to me. Let's take these one at a time.

"The seating capacity at Alumni Stadium is 44,500 (since 1995 renovation) and BC averaged attendance well below 40,000 the last several seasons. When I was in Chestnut Hill during my college days, a BC ticket wasn't all that easy to get and Alumni Stadium was as loud and vibrant as ever before, selling out most games. We would wear our "BC Superfan" T shirts (I still have my original one from '99) proud and cheer until we lost our voices because we were winning, most of the time."

By loud and vibrant, you are of course referring to the 33,756 that showed up for the Eagles' home opener against Baylor in The Raj's freshman year, right? Or maybe it was the 33,574 that showed up for a mid-October Big East showdown with Pitt? The Eagles averaged just 39,993 over just five home games that season, despite going 8-3 during the regular season before getting pasted by Colorado in the Insight Bowl. 

Perhaps The Raj -- no relation to BCI's BCRaj, mind you -- is talking about his sophomore year (and my freshman year), where the Eagles drew 35,383 for the UConn game, 33,565 for Rutgers and 35,333 for the home finale against Temple? The only two home games to sell out Alumni Stadium in 2000? That would be Virginia Tech and Syracuse. And oh hey, look! One of those two programs is now a member of the Atlantic Coast Conference and the other is signed to a long-term football contract that goes to 2021. 

Moving on to your junior year, in which average home attendance finally broke the 40k mark. A strong year for the Eagles, relatively speaking, averaging 42,295 over six home games. Of course this average was bolstered by two sellouts against Notre Dame and Miami, both of which the Eagles continue to play to this day. The three home games most lightly attended that season? West Virginia (42,482), Pittsburgh (41,637) and Temple (38,724).

Finally, during your senior year, average home attendance dipped back down below 40k (39,688) and was hurt by games against UConn (40,006), Syracuse (36,221) and Rutgers (33,786). A schedule that had seven home games and the Eagles failed to sellout a single one, with the highest home attendance figure coming in the game against the Hokies (42,826). Again, ACC.

Overall, from 1999-2002, the Eagles averaged 40,090 over 24 home games and managed just four sellouts -- against Virginia Tech (2000), Syracuse (2000), Notre Dame (2001) and Miami (2001). All four of those programs are still on BC's future schedules and ZERO non-Syracuse old guard Big East programs sold out Alumni from 1999-2002. Those four BC sellouts mean that the Eagles sold out 17 percent of home games over the period. 

Loud and vibrant? Selling out most games? Hardly.

Next.

Star-divide

"Programs with much bigger stadiums and deeply rooted histories sell out their stadiums left and right, why shouldn't Boston College? Today, things have changed a bit and perhaps we can blame it on the move to the ACC in July, '05, but either way BC plays in a pro town and that will never change."

Really? By my math, only 13 of the top 30 FBS attendance team leaders sold out every home game last season. That means the other 107 FBS programs either didn't sell out every game or have such small stadiums that they didn't rank in the top 25 percent of Division I-A. Nothing like using outliers for your analysis.

Also a note on last year's Top 30 list. There are four ACC programs in the top 30 -- Clemson (17), Florida State (20), Virginia Tech (24) and North Carolina (30) -- and no programs from the Big East. 

And for the finale:

"I fully expect BC to leave the ACC and head back to the Big East in the coming years and that will certainly help because alumni don't care about playing schools like FSU or Wake Forest. They would rather play UCONN, Syracuse, Rutgers, etc. I believe one day BC will get it together and i'm hoping it starts with this upcoming season, which already looks grim with the injury bug at bay."

All you have to know about the claim that moving back to the Big East will help football attendance is here. Check the per-home game attendance averages for programs that made three or more appearances on the Heights from 1995-2010. Math is fun.

1. Notre Dame (6) -- 44,500
2. Miami (6) -- 43,682
3. Virginia Tech (8) -- 43,510
4. Navy (4) -- 42,845
5. Syracuse (5) -- 42,627
6. West Virginia (5) -- 41,648
7. Florida State (3) -- 41,531
8. Clemson (3) -- 41,167
9. Maryland (3) -- 41,115
10. N.C. State (3) -- 40,200
11. Connecticut (3) -- 39,983
12. Wake Forest (4) -- 39,845
13. Pittsburgh (5) -- 39,298
14. Temple (4) -- 39,254
15. Rutgers (5) -- 38,253

Four of the top five biggest Alumni Stadium draws of the last 16 seasons -- Notre Dame, Miami, Virginia Tech and Syracuse -- are still on the Eagles' future football schedules. Conversely, four of the bottom five programs are programs BC left behind in the Big East. Those four programs accounted for ZERO Alumni Stadium sellouts from 1999-2002 and were some of the most pooly attended games over that time period. Basically, the old guard Big East programs barely moved the needle when it comes to Boston College home football attendance.

Further, this doesn't even factor in the new Big East football programs like USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, which would be equally poor draws due to distance and general commuter school-ishness. TCU? Forget it. A school with less than 10,000 students playing 1,800 miles from campus? This has all the writings of an equally frightful attendance nightmare. 

Please just stop while you are behind. What sort of self-respecting BC alum would rather travel to Storrs, New Brunswick, Louisville, Cincinnati, Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Morgantown to watch college football over Miami, Tallahassee, Atlanta, Clemson, Blacksburg, Charlottesville, the North Carolina schools and College Park? Clearly you've never been to an Eagles football road game in Lane Stadium or Death Valley.

One thing I will agree with The Raj on is this:

"The only answer to the problem Boston College has is -GET BETTER and do it fast."

Winning will cure a lot of the Eagles' attendance woes. So too will bringing in interesting non-conference opponents that aren't extremely regional and uninteresting public schools. But winning by returning to a lesser football conference?

I've heard of plenty of quirky marketing gimmicks before, but decreasing the quality of your product by bringing weaker football programs to the Heights is a sure fire way to NOT improve BC home football attendance. Taking out a daily GroupOn special will be a hell of a lot more effective than replacing Virginia Tech, Miami, Florida State, Clemson and Georgia Tech with Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn.

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Checkmate, Brian.

I love reading when someone’s entire argument is refuted with actual facts. ACC> Big Least.

The Groupon move by the AD is a another argument…some season ticket holders are pissed.

by hoyaeagle on Aug 25, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Season ticket holders

Im sure Gene appreciates your loyalty and commitment to the team. This groupon is just to fill the stadium, let’s just hope more neutrals fill the seats rather than those purple wearing barney lovers. (no offense brian)

Also while i dont agree with almost anything “The Raj” has to say, AHANA is proud that they are being represented on the blogosphere :)

by BCRaj on Aug 25, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Sigh

The only time the “move back to the Big East” argument ever has any legs is when basketball is used. And that’s because a lot of people miss playing the Georgetowns, Syracuses, and Villanovas of the world, and miss the conference tournament at MSG. People who want BC back in the Big East for football just don’t get it. I can’t see any conference games selling out at BC if they were in the post-expansion Big East. However, FSU, Virginia Tech, and Miami have all seen sell outs since BC has been in the ACC.
The only games I could ever see myself getting excited for in the Big East would be whatever team is considered the “top” team that year plus maybe Syracuse. UConn would excite me if we could whoop their butts every year. But USF, Cincy, Louisville, Rutgers? Yawn. TCU would be fun in the future but who knows if they can keep up their success. None of the Big East schools have anywhere close to the cache of FSU, Virginia Tech, Miami, and (probably with the exception of WVU) Clemson. Each year in the ACC, I always circle the VT, FSU, and Clemson games. The NC State game is fun for us too because of the TOB factor. That’s half of the conference games to get excited for, and that’s not even including years when Miami is on the schedule. And I haven’t even mentioned the amount of wacky games we’ve played against Wake Forest (though they seem to be a bit on the down trend so maybe our games will become less wacky) .

by bcfan131 on Aug 25, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Shock jock bloggio?

I’m convinced that the website that this story was published on and the subsequent twitter-flame that followed were from plants doing nothing but trying to get a rise out of people (mission accomplished with yours truly). Thankfully, Twitter has a “block” function.

I refuse to believe a graduate of my alumnus could be this obtuse.

GO BC!

by BCMike22 on Aug 25, 2011 4:56 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Agreed.

An inane line of arguement well refuted Brian.

by Eagle in Brighton on Aug 25, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Specious argument

BC’s attendance is poor whether the Eagles played in the Big East or ACC. Face it – BC’s problems have everything to do with the perception in Boston of BC’s football program and little to do with conference alignment. I have never seen fans so quick to turn on a local program as they do on BC. Maybe you could play three home games against Notre Dame and…well, Miami will be out of the picture for a while.

by Tony77019 on Aug 25, 2011 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Tony — Penn State guy — WTF???

by #)&!*$&( on Aug 25, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good argument.

I agree with all of your points. However, I will say that BC culture doesn’t fully embrace football. Tailgating is rarely an option for regular people. Many alumni I know do not keep up with sports or bother to attend games. Personally, I’m on this site year round, I’ve attended many home games since graduating, as well as an ACC championship game and a bowl game. I love BC football, but sometimes I feel alone in that respect. Winning will help. The Big East will not.

by bc2208 on Aug 25, 2011 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I will say that BC culture doesn’t fully embrace football. Tailgating is rarely an option for regular people.

That’s also my constructive criticism of our alma mater and athletic department. There are a litany of macro factors beyond your control (listed ad nauseum: economy, pro teams, etc.); however, there definitely is room to maximize the gameday experience (which very much IS within BC’s control). Sure the on-the-field performance is of paramount concern, but arguably of equal value is the atmosphere before, during, and after the game, and it comes down to tailgating. The AD made an effort this offseason to reduce tailgate rates for young alumni, which I applaud, but they shouldn’t stop there. The ultimate means to attract the casual, fickle Bostonian is not through promotions (which are a fine ST stopgap); but rather, by deregulating tailgating (alcohol limitations, ticket restrictions, etc.) and making it generally more affordable.

by Eagle in Brighton on Aug 25, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Conference is not the issue: Gameday environment is, though that is fixable

Don’t get me wrong: there’s a reason you look forward to the release of depth chart, or follow recruiting, or post of a blog, because ultimately you value the program. Though those friends of the school and fans of the program look forward to their Saturday’s on Shea and in Alumni IN SPITE of the barriers (regulations and cost), to attract the casual fan, those barriers need be to be reevaluated, as they appear to be slowly becoming prohibitive .

by Eagle in Brighton on Aug 25, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Conference is not the issue, but could be the issue back in the Big East.

At least in the ACC there are games on the sched to look forward too, including Virginia Tech, Florida State, Clemson, Miami, North Carolina (recent success), NC State, Georgia Tech. There are only 2-3 really poor draws in the conference — Duke, Wake and Virginia. Plus the conference is back on the upswing in football, at least that’s what the media is telling me, with Florida State looking more and more like they want to again headline the conference.

In the New Big East, poor draws are the rule rather than the exception. Rutgers, Pitt, Cincinnati, Louisville, USF, TCU would all be attendance disasters. There’s no Big East of yore to go back to, especially after they let in a bunch of commuter schools.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

  • look forward to

Comments grammar FAIL

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big East / ACC

The Big East and the ACC are about even in Basketball and Football, no football national titles since 2003 for either and a couple of basketball championships for each. That being said, BC should of stayed in the Big East because now BC fans have to travel thousands of miles to see road games!!!! It would be nice to cruise on down to NJ, CT or Cuse to see games every year.

by machenbach on Aug 25, 2011 5:59 PM EDT reply actions  

And “cruise on down” to Tampa, Cincinnati, Louisville and Fort Worth. Yeah, would be nice.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming BC went bacck to the Big East they wouldn’t be in those southern teams division. Also, another thing the Big East has over the ACC is that’s it’s not owned be one state. Much like the Big 12’s setup, North Carolina owns the ACC and what they say goes.

by machenbach on Aug 25, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because you never play programs from the other side of the division? Who are the mysterious 11th and 12th football programs the Big East is scooping up to even create divisions?

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Big East isn’t owned by one state. The conference is actually much worse off. They are owned by a bunch of small, non-football playing hoops schools that don’t have the slightest clue how to run a BCS AQ conference.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even in football?

The ACC starts the season with a top 10 program (FSU), a top 20 program (VT) and 2-3 fringe top 25 programs in NC State, Maryland and Miami.

The best Big East program isn’t even a member of the conference yet (TCU) and West Virginia is the only ranked Big East outfit (in just one of the polls).

Even? Hardly.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your own Poll on August 2nd

@BCInterruption: Do you remember your own poll posted on August 2nd? “Would you ever entertain the notion of Boston College returning to the Big East?”
Here is your link: http://www.bcinterruption.com/2011/8/2/2339723/conference-realignment-boston-college-to-big-east-tv-media-rights-contract-pac-12-sec-big-ten

Did you look at your those results? Keep in mind your website is for BC fans, not just college football fans so I’d think your current sample size of OVER 800 people is fair. Here are your results BCInterruption (and BCMIKE):
Yes-54%
No-12%
“Hell No”-33%
Based on that, your OWN poll proves the majority of BC Fans would prefer to be back in the Big East TODAY and the preference isn’t quite as “obvious” as you would like it to be. Don’t worry anyways guys, once super conferences take over the planet, one of these two conferences won’t even exist and the choice will be made by default and we’ll all sing Go Eagles in harmony.

by TheRaj on Aug 25, 2011 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Poll was hijacked

And BCI has the IP’s to prove it.

GO BC!

by BCMike22 on Aug 25, 2011 7:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So your argument is purely based on the fact that a poll on this site got hijacked by the Big East, West Virginia, Syracuse, Pitt and Rutgers message boards and the results skew towards wanting to go back to the Big East?

Nevermind the wording of the question — Would you ever entertain the notion of Boston College returning to the Big East? — and the rationale that some BC fans would entertain the notion because the school may be forced to go back to the Big East.

Anyhow, regardless of BC Fans would prefer to be back in the Big East TODAY, that isn’t the point of your post. Instead, you claim that moving back to the Big East would help improve BC home football attendance. I’m pretty sure I torpedoed that argument using actual per-game attendance figures.

But if you didn’t bother to actually take the time to read my post, I’ve provided Cliff Notes for you:

The Raj: “BC ticket wasn’t all that easy to get and Alumni Stadium was as loud and vibrant as ever before, selling out most games”
Brian: BC sold out 1 in 6 home games from 1999-2002, just 4 of 24 games.

The Raj: “Programs with much bigger stadiums and deeply rooted histories sell out their stadiums left and right, why shouldn’t Boston College?”
Brian: By left and right, you of course mean less than 10 percent of I-A college football programs.

The Raj: “I fully expect BC to leave the ACC and head back to the Big East in the coming years”
Brian: Do you even know who the current President and AD of Boston College is? Because if you did, you’d know that their stance on the Big East is very clear.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

How bout a security question to enter the poll? Such as “Which is the douchiest freshman dorm?”

by bc2208 on Aug 25, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

2010 Harvard Crimson football home attendance

The Raj: "Harvard sells out its game for Christ’s sake and that’s across the Charles from us! "
Brian: 2010 Harvard home attendance

vs. Holy Cross: 21,704
vs. Cornell: 11,434
vs. Lehigh: 12,252
vs. Columbia: 7,801
vs. Yale: 31,398

Harvard Stadium seats 30,323. So that’s one sellout (Harvard-Yale) in 2010 …

Beauty of a simple web search.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to pile it on but ...

Harvard Stadium is actually on the SAME side of the Charles River as Boston College. #DirectionallyChallenged

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yuk yuk

Is The Raj relying on a blog poll. Very dumb

The Raj. Are you a Miami grad? Do tell

by waterwater on Aug 25, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trollin’ on your alma mater is some crazy s—t. Though not knowing which side of the river Harvard Stadium is may be worse.

by Brian Favat on Aug 26, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Another factor -- day of the week

Going back to the Big East would inevitably mean more Wednesday, Thursday and Friday night games for Boston College, which would KILL per-game football attendance and piss off the neighbors.

Here’s the non-Saturday game breakdown for the Big East:

Cincinnati (2) — Thursday (Austin Peay), Thursday (NC State)
Connecticut (3) — Thursday (Fordham), Friday (Iowa State), Wednesday (Pittsburgh)
Louisville (4) — Thursday (Murray State), Friday (FIU), Friday (Rutgers), Friday (USF)
Pittsburgh (3) — Thursday (USF), Wednesday (UConn), Friday (West Virginia)
Rutgers (2) — Thursday (NC Central), Friday (Louisville)
USF (3) — Thursday (Pitt), Friday (Syracuse), Friday (Louisville)
Syracuse (1) — Friday (USF)
West Virginia (2) — Friday (Pittsburgh), Thursday (USF)

And for the ACC:

Boston College (2) — Thursday (Florida State), Friday (Miami)
Florida State (1) — Thursday (Boston College)
Georgia Tech (2) — Thursday (Western Carolina), Thursday (Virginia Tech)
Wake Forest (1) — Thursday (Syracuse)
Maryland (1) — Monday (Miami)
Miami (3) — Monday (Maryland), Thursday (Virginia), Friday (Boston College)
N.C. State (1) — Thursday (Cincinnati)
North Carolina (1) — Thursday (Virginia Tech)
Virginia (1) — Thursday (Miami)
Virginia Tech (2) — Thursday (Georgia Tech), Thursday (North Carolina)

No Wednesday night games. One Friday night game on the day after Thanksgiving and just one Monday night game (Labor Day). Contrast that with UConn or Pitt, who play three games on a Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Basically, read this. http://www.frogsowar.com/2011/8/20/2375146/friday-night-lights

Tells you all you need to know about programs that play on random Wednesday and Friday nights. In a word, amateur hour.

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Awesome post

I was at BC when the Big East football formed and the only buzz came with Syracuse and Miami – and WVU when they were national title contenders. You’re right on the money still. How well drawing would us playing UConn be when UConn itself only sold 4,000 tickets to the Fiesta Bowl! The f****king Fiesta Bowl and they sold 4k! Cincinati’s ticket sales are down 22%, Rutgers is better, but only because they started from such a low level. Still no one in NYC cares. The day the Cuse is better they push Rutgers coverage back to the sex phone lines and the horse bettor’s spread in the deep recesses of the Post.
It’s ridiculous to think we have to argue this after all the buzz we had with Matt Ryan. Two years of unexciting, mediocre football and a bad economy have trimmed ticket sales. Surprise! Visits from USF and Louisville wouldn’t counter that at all.

by Lothar17 on Aug 25, 2011 7:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Penn St, WVU and Syracuse were all fun games back in the day. Rutgers, temple, blah.

by waterwater on Aug 25, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where’s UConn on your list, waterwater? Oh right. Division I-AA

by Brian Favat on Aug 25, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had to look back, if not YouCon, then who??

I tell u, those were the days.

In 1983, we beat Penn st (Kenny Jackson, DJ Dozier), we beat Clemson (Wm Fridge Perry) and we beat Alabama (Cornelius Bennett )

But lost to WVU (Jeff Hosteler, Rich Rod) and sneaky Syracuse (Doug Marrone)

End regular season ranked #13!

We play in Liberty bowl and lose to ND (Mark Bavaro, Mike Golic, Alan Pinkett) by 1,,, end up ranked in top 20,

Now that is the kind of football I would love to see again!!

by waterwater on Aug 25, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two years of unexciting, mediocre football and a bad economy have trimmed ticket sales. Surprise! Visits from USF and Louisville wouldn’t counter that at all.

Exactly. The ticket issue is just cyclical, and any inane yammering about conference affiliation is what it is: uniformed and baseless.

Nothing would initiate a decent into general fan apathy than swapping out an ACC schedule for the likes of USF, L’Ville, Cincy, Rutgers, etc.

by Eagle in Brighton on Aug 26, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Especially with the way in which the BC-Big East divorce went down

If the super conference apocalypse happens — which has much less of a chance of happening than most would have you believe (again, baseless and uninformed) — and the Eagles find themselves back in a football conference with UConn, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia and newcomers TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, USF and Villanova, I may stop supporting the football program.

BC Interruption will become a blog dedicated to our powerhouse hockey, sailing and soccer programs, and will ignore any and all football news.

It would be that bad.

by Brian Favat on Aug 26, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cincinnati ticket sales down 22%
“Last year’s 4-8 record has taken its toll on the University of Cincinnati’s season ticket sales.

With a little more than a week before UC opens its 2011 football season against Austin Peay on Sept. 3, season ticket sales are down 22 percent from last year.

UC has sold 12,348 season tickets for this year, compared with 15,899 in 2010."

I’ll take “What happens when your home schedule consists of Austin Peay, Akron, NC State (Thursday), Louisville, West Virginia and UConn for $200, Alex.”

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110824/SPT0101/308240118/UC-season-ticket-sales-down?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports

by Brian Favat on Aug 26, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you familiar with "Ether" by Nas...

because that was the Boston College blog version of it. Well done BCI

What a fraud.

"An offensive lineman from BC comes with a guaranteed pedigree stamp" - Wash. Post

by JMSF#1 on Aug 25, 2011 10:49 PM EDT reply actions  

+1 great reference.

Writer at BC Interruption SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
Follow me on Twitter

by A.J Black on Aug 25, 2011 11:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

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