SB Nation Conference Re-Draft: Ten Rounds Complete, 11th Round In Progress
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 8:21 AM EDT
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The tenth round of the SB Nation Conference Re-Draft took a bit longer to complete, but we have now completed 10 rounds and drafted 60 college athletics programs. We set the tone a bit by selecting our 10th and 11th round picks simultaneously to keep things moving. Here's a look at the six conferences through ten+ rounds:
Round 10
-- The Cult of Les Miles: Ole Miss
-- The House of a Thousand Sanctions: N.C. State
-- Conference TMZ: Cincinnati
-- The Empire: South Florida
-- Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants: Indiana
-- Twelve Pack: Minnesota
Round 11
-- Twelve Pack: Purdue
-- Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants: Texas Tech
-- The Empire: Hawaii
Complete draft board below:
| BCI | BHGP | TSK | BECB | HoS | RCR | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1. Texas | 2. Florida | 3. Alabama | 4. Ohio State | 5. USC | 6. LSU |
| 2 | 12. Georgia | 11. Penn State | 10. Oklahoma | 9. Florida State | 8. Notre Dame | 7. Michigan |
| 3 | 13. U.C.L.A. | 14. Virginia Tech | 15. Nebraska | 16. Louisville | 17. Oregon | 18. North Carolina |
| 4 | 24. Wisconsin | 23. Miami (Fla.) | 22. Texas A&M | 21. Michigan State | 20. Tennessee | 19. Stanford |
| 5 | 25. Washington | 26. Auburn | 27. Arizona | 28. West Virginia | 29. Syracuse | 30. Arkansas |
| 6 | 36. Duke | 35. Kansas | 34. California | 33. Maryland | 32. Kentucky | 31. Iowa |
| 7 | 37. Clemson | 38. Illinois | 39. UConn | 40. Missouri | 41. Pittsburgh | 42. Oklahoma State |
| 8 | 48. Virginia | 47. TCU | 46. Arizona State | 45. Utah | 44. BYU | 43. South Carolina |
| 9 | 49. Boston College | 50. Colorado | 51. Oregon State | 52. Boise State | 53. Vanderbilt | 54. Georgia Tech |
| 10 | 60. Minnesota | 59. Indiana | 58. South Florida | 57. Cincinnati | 56. N.C. State | 55. Ole Miss |
| 11 | 61. Purdue | 62. Texas Tech | 63. Hawaii |
Comissioners and Conference names: BCI: Twelve Pack; BHGP: Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants; TSK: The Empire (working title); BECB: Conference TMZ; HoS: House of a Thousand Sanctions; RCR: The Cult Of Les Miles.
Updated USA Today rendering of the Twelve Pack's dominance above.
There are certainly worse programs that could have fell to the Twelve Pack with the 60th and 61st picks of the SB Nation Conference Re-Draft, so the commish and our conference board members were thrilled when we were able to snatch up the Big Ten's Minnesota and Purdue in rounds 10 and 11.
Minnesota gives the Twelve Pack an excellent mix of large TV markets, strong athletic department revenues, enrollment, academics, quality non-revs (most notably ice hockey) and some brand new facilities. The Gophers give us a presence in a top 15 TV market (Minneapolis/St. Paul) while Minnesota was the higher earner left on the board (29th nationally). In addition, with an enrollment of 51,721, U of M is the one of the top four largest universities by enrollment, behind only Arizona State, UCF and Ohio State. The Gophers give the Twelve Pack another quality hockey program to go with BC and Wisconsin, and the football program's brand new open air TCF Bank Stadium is one of the best new facilities in the country.
The Gophers are also natural rivals to the Twelve Pack's Wisconsin Badgers, who participate yearly for Paul Bunyan's Axe/Slab of Bacon (though U of M hasn't seen the trophy since 2003).
Purdue, like Minnesota, strengthens the Twelve Pack's northern presence and makes us even more relevant in the Chicago and Indianapolis markets. And like Minnesota, Purdue was a top 30 earner just a few years ago.
Purdue comes with Matt Painter and a top 10 basketball program. If you haven't noticed, Painter has taken over the basketball-rabid state of Indiana, and we're not sure he's going to give it back to Tom Crean at Indiana. In fact, the Boilermakers have won more men's and women's Big Ten Championships -- regular season and tournament -- than any other program in the Big Ten. The Boilermakers also come with loads of potential on the football side and hopefully a return to those 9 win seasons in the late 1990s and early 2000s. With a capacity of 62,500, Purdue's Ross-Ade Stadium was also the largest on-campus football stadium left on the board. Finally, Purdue isn't a slouch academically either, tied with Georgia at 56 in the latest national university USN&WR rankings.
As our board rep Vasherized of Barking Carnival says, the Twelve Pack continues to cling to its virtues: TVs, Cash, Books and Co-eds. Minnesota and Purdue both fit the conference mold really well and continue our conference's dominance in these categories.
Be sure to head on over to The Daily Gopher and Hammer & Rails and welcome the newest members of the Twelve Pack.
There are just eight more picks until the Twelve Pack picks Mr. Irrelevant of this draft. Who do you like to fall to us to complete the Twelve Pack?
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Wow
Looks like quite a bit happened in the last 24 hours. Great pick ups.
Purdue is a great school, but it’s not known for its coeds.
Forgot to add
How likely do you think it is that Northwestern will still be on the board on the way back? It looks like there are eight picks before you can crown Mr. Irrelevant.
I obviously would love to grab Northwestern at 72 but I highly doubt they are still around …
Northwestern, Wake Forest, Mississippi State, Rutgers, Baylor, Washington State, Iowa State and Kansas State are the only BCS AQ programs left. If someone grabs a few non-AQs like UCF, Army, Navy or Air Force, it could happen, but even still, you have to think NU is more attractive than some of those other AQ programs left on the board.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Of that..
(1) Northwestern
(2) Rutgers
(3) Iowa State or non-AQ that somewhat fits the mold.
I think NU and RU will definitely be gone. The rest are meh, with Wake the closest fit.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You may get lucky. BECB is good for at least one ‘wtf’ pick, HoS has been hinting at taking the academies, TSK has been drafting based on upside and BHGP may not have the heart to take NU given their recent record against them. I give it a one in four shot that you pull either NU or Rutgers.
That said, if you’re going to mail it in, you may as well have fun: Tulane (New Orleans), SMU (Dallas), or Rice (Houston).
Can you please please please please
Pick up ITT Tech or University of Pheonix? We could either have one of the largest universities in the world (ITT Tech) or have one badass football stadium to host the 12 Pack conference championship games. Plus think about all the degrees and chicks you can get online. lol
Good pick up of Minnesota. I wouldn’t have known who to grab after that, so I can deal with Purdue
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
Purdue is the alma mater of John Wooden.
Enough said.
Welcome to both schools. Our commish is killing it.
greg in denver, U.C.L.A. guy for life - BruinsNation.com
I'm figuring D-1A football is a requirement?
Otherwise I’d be looking at Georgetown or Villanova. Excellent academics, good hoops, and good TV markets. Solid non-revenue sports. Jury is still out on co-eds. Besides their lack of football, I think they fit the 12 Pack’s model.
Other than that, how was the play Ms. Lincoln?
No football = no way. There is a reason the Big East is such a horror show. Football drives the dollars in a major way, and this conference has plenty of basketball strength already. GTown and ’Nova belong in a non-D1 football conference (the long rumored Catholic basketball conference would be great I think).
Yeah ...
Big no to non-DIA football playing schools. What is this, the Big East?
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Apologies
I was looking out for Duke football! They don’t stand a chance against anyone else in football!
But yea since non-D1A’s are out Kansas State might be the choice. Doesn’t fit the model, but who really does at this point?
Aztecs
One of the best programs left ont he board is San Diego State. Should grab them with your last pick if available. They’d look good on your map in a reasonable distance to UCLA. Some football success with Marshall Faulk, no reason they can’t grow bigger. Basketball there is taking off and has good fan support. Better choice than what is left with Big Six.
I like your Purdue pick.
by Erik00 on Jul 27, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
San Diego State seems like an ok pick at this point. Maybe also consider UCF or Navy?
by chicagofire1871 on Jul 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think UCF will be available. Probably get scooped up in next 5-6 picks.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It will be interesting to see what happens with the academies. I think there is a lot of value in getting two, but if you aren’t on the ends of the snake draft like we are, it is difficult to predict whether you can land Army and Navy or Navy and Air Force with your 11 and 12 picks.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Navy or Northwestern
Doubtful that both will remain when the pick comes around, but either would be better adds than jumping to WAC or MAC schools.
There are a bunch of Conference USA and Mountain West programs worth looking at, but agree definitely no MAC or WAC. Willing to bet no MAC, Sun Belt or WAC remainders (post MWC raid) get drafted at all.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 27, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Wish this was our conference in real life…
by Eagle in Brighton on Jul 27, 2011 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
On basketball
8/11 picks made the field last year.
1 seed (Duke)
3 seed (Purdue)
4 seeds (Texas, Wisconsin)
7 seeds (Washington, UCLA)
10 seed (Georgia)
12 seed (Clemson)
Navy & Princeton
Are the two final schools I want. I think going up to thirteen (baker’s dozen anyone?) would make our conference more valuable. Super sad we didn’t get Indiana, and by one pick! Those snatchers!
Purdue… apparently you didn’t look into the culture there. Purdue is a notoriously racist school. One of my best friends went out there and only made it a semester, because he was getting called so many bad names, based purely on the fact that he’s black. Absolutely appalling.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
Culture?
Didn’t look into the culture there, but all schools have their warts. Schools like BC and Duke regularly rank in the top 10 for whitest schools in the country, and I know BC has been voted one of the least tolerant / diverse in the past.
http://gawker.com/5815919/brooks-brothers-inadvertently-reveals-americas-whitest-colleges
Editor, BC Interruption
Wow???
Way to make a blanket statement about which you know nothing. I attended Purdue and never saw one instance of “racism”. There is a diverse crowd- I believe it has one of the largest poplulations of international students. There are also plenty of black students that attend. I would hardly say the Purdue is “notoriously” racist. Perhaps, your friend was being an absolute jerk and ran into a rough crowd on the OTHER side of the river. WEST Lafayette is nothing like you are trying to portray it to be.
We've Found A Home!
As a fan of the Minnesota Golden Gophers I’d like to accept this invitation to the best conference in the country. Also, the best Named Conference. I’m suffering a bit from the Big Ten with 12 teams and the Big 12 with 10 teams but, what are you going to do?
This conference would dominate in Football, Basketball, and our favorite up here in da nort’, Hockey.
Welcome!
Glad you also recognize that we are the elite conference to be in. We’ll trade you some salmon for trout?
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
by jazzaholic17 on Jul 27, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Trout is good and all
… but wouldn’t you prefer some walleye? It’s a Minnesota staple.
Sounds good to me!
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
by jazzaholic17 on Jul 27, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Welcome to the Twelve Pack!
Glad to have you with us. Think we can convince Purdue to add men’s ice hockey?
Editor, BC Interruption
Walleye and Ice Hockey
jazz, you’re gonna want to try our walleye, it’s fantastic! As far as Purdue picking up the ice hockey, I think we’re out of luck. Those hosers know nothing about puttin’ on the foil.
by GopherGlory on Jul 28, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
MN and PU seem like good value here
However, MN illustrates where my philosophy differs from yours. My problem with your plan is that revenues are heavily conference dependent. MN isn’t #29 in revenue because of their inherent value so much as because they are in the B10. MN brought you value because it gives you a big market, WI/MN, decent hoops and some hockey for the conference network. The terrible football lately almost strips MN of value without the rivalry game, though, because football drives revenue and nobody watches bad football.
Once teams move into these new conferences, you can’t be sure what their revenues will be. I think one should put more value on marketable properties, like rivalries and success, or advantages, like recruiting pools and big markets, and use attendance rather than revenue to evaluate schools.
We have been looking at 2007-08 revenues, which removes some of the revenue disparity we’re seeing in the last couple of years with the Big Six TV contracts.
The value of a Minnesota isn’t in the football product as it is entry into a large TV market for a network like the BTN / Longhorn Network.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 28, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
But still, how much of MN’s revenue is due to OSU, MI and PSU (and company) in football driving the B10 contracts? What would MN make in the MWC or BE? That’s all I’m saying. The revenue numbers are not accurate reflections of what schools could earn if all else was the same.
I still think the revenue figures are a good proxy of athletic department relevance. There are plenty of Big Six programs are the wrong end of the revenue list:
59. Northwestern
60. Wake Forest
62. Washington State
63. Iowa State
65. Ole Miss
75. Mississippi State
Those programs also benefit from having some big time athletics programs coming to campus on Saturday — Florida State, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, UCLA, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, Auburn, etc. — but still struggle in terms of revenue.
Total revenue is by no means a perfect measure, but I do think it is a valid one to reflect some measure of value in terms of interest, ability to generate revenue and desirable markets (specifically, look at the Mississippi schools).
Editor, BC Interruption
It’s a warning sign for AQs to show up that low, but NW and WF are private so I wouldn’t trust their numbers. Both are certainly hurt by small stadiums that don’t sell out, though. NW still gives Chicago access, though.
Though BC is also on the small-ish side with facilities on the smaller side and still ranked 32nd nationally in 2007-08. Though I suppose having a third quasi-rev sport in ice hockey helps the school generate more revenue than other comparably sized schools with comparable facilities.
Editor, BC Interruption
NW has never made the NCAA in hoops, so they don’t get much money there. The game at Wrigley gave them a huge boost in average attendance from 24,200 in 2009 to 36,400 last year. I think BC is more typically in the 35-38k range.
If only NW could make money on women’s lacrosse.
NCAA Tournament revenues
I’m pretty sure the Big Ten splits revenue from TV contracts, bowls and the NCAA basketball tournament evenly, so I don’t think it matters that NU has never made the Dance.
Editor, BC Interruption
I was thinking ticket sales
The lack of success certainly shows in their home attendance.
Northwestern does pretty well in terms of basketball attendance in recent years, especially when you consider Welsh-Ryan is usually always half full with Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan and Indiana fans.
Editor, BC Interruption
Really?
They weren’t top 100 last year. PSU was next to last in the B10 at #62 with 8150 and #100 pulled 5411. How is that doing well?
Percent capacity?
Are you looking at percent capacity? Northwestern does well for what they have to work with — which is the smallest basketball arena in the Big Ten (by far). Easy to see why they weren’t top 100 last year when you consider:
1. Ohio State — 19,500
2. Indiana — 17,456
3. Wisconsin — 17,230
4. Illinois — 16,618
5. Michigan State — 16,280
6. Iowa — 15,500
7. Penn State — 15,261
8. Minnesota — 14,321
9. Purdue — 14,123
10. Michigan — 13,751
11. Nebraska — 13,595
12. Northwestern — 8,117
Editor, BC Interruption
Total - you don't get paid by percent
They have a small arena because they don’t need a bigger one. They have fewer students and fewer alumni and sell a lot fewer tickets, which is why I said they lag in MBB revenue.
You also get paid based on how much you charge for tickets, number of home games, merchandise sales, etc.
Duke is the most profitable basketball program in the country and plays in a 9,314 hole of an arena. Duke also has fewer students, fewer alumni and sells fewer tickets. Doesn’t tell the whole story.
Editor, BC Interruption
2007-08 revenues
1. Texas — $120,288,370
5. Wisconsin — $93,452,334
13. Georgia — $84,020,180
23. Duke — $67,820,335
25. UCLA — $66,088,264
26. Virginia — $65,400,485
29. Minnesota — $63,782,454
30. Purdue — $62,093,614
32. Boston College — $61,203,340
33. Washington — $60,729,016
34. Clemson — $59,126,212
Editor, BC Interruption
Also, this exercise requires a bit of forward thinking on our part. Consider that our first three draft picks combined for 22 losses in football last season. Just because Minnesota has sucked in football the last decade doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be awful going forward, especially with new coach, new stadium and playing against Texas, UCLA, Georgia, Wisconsin, etc. on Saturdays.
When I look at Minnesota, I see plenty of potential in the form of huge enrollment + large TV market + strong AD revenues.
Who were you thinking of having us pick to replace U of M?
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Jul 28, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said
I think you did get good value with MN here, but for different reasons. That’s why I figured this was a good time to mention it since it wouldn’t come across as overly critical.
I projected MN as a 10th round pick. I think you overvalue their revenue but undervalue the rivalry with WI as a marketable property. I think you overvalue their market because Minneapolis is a Vikings town and the TV people know that, but a subscription based network would still get full advantage. I think you overvalue their potential, but any team can be turned around by the right guy.
It was a good pick, just for the wrong reasons.
Still genuinely curious ...
What other programs do you think we should have considered with the 10th round pick?
The group considered Minnesota, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern and Rutgers with those picks. IU was taken right before us, but we did have some reservations about adding another football dead weight.
Editor, BC Interruption
Re: Minneapolis
I think you underestimate the Gopher’s pull. The cities are fairly insular. The state of Minnesota has half of its population in the metro area, making it the clear destination for working professionals. ‘Da U’ is also the only BCS university in the state.
What this means is those that go to college for professional degrees generally go to U of M, and generally stay in the cities. This isn’t like Chicago, where several universities feed the metro, splintering the market. And the only one you could argue that does, is Wisconsin.
I’m not going to sugar coat it— the football team is bad and pro-sports always trump college in a major market (because of their secular appeal). However, there can be no question that the Gophers deliver the market. Like their football team, their fans lie dormant.
I base it on what other Gopher fans have said. I agree that MN fans would watch in droves if the team was good, but that’s taking a leap based on the past 40 years or so.
I don’t quite know what your criteria for delivering a market is, if (1) you think they’d get a subscription based network and (2) you don’t refute their alumni’s saturation. Sure the team is bad, but the AD still sells all their tickets.
To me, Minnesota is a lot like a Washington-lite. Lots of potential as one of the few large BCS universities in a major TV market. From Maisel’s recent look at Washington:
That is unusual for an FBS school in an NFL market. The majority of them are smaller private institutions. Even among that small cohort of older, public schools that includes a Minnesota or a Georgia Tech, the campus in the Montlake area near downtown Seattle stands apart.
The insular nature of the Pacific Northwest has proved to be one of the Huskies’ greatest assets. According to Washington senior associate athletic director O.D. Vincent, nearly 70 percent of the university’s 300,000 alumni live within a 100-mile radius of the campus.
“You know what the guy who has my job at Northwestern told me?” asked Vincent, who is in charge of marketing. “I met him at the [Big City Marketing] Summit. He told me of the 12 Big Ten schools, Northwestern has the 10th-largest alumni base in Chicago. In their own town, they are 10th in their conference. That’s amazing. It is unique here.”
Editor, BC Interruption
Well, a subscription based network is a big assumption for starters. I agree that would make MN more valuable, but I don’t assume that is the model that would apply. The SEC doesn’t work that way, so the 12 Pack might not either. And just because you get subscribers doesn’t mean you get viewers.
I keep saying I don’t think it was a bad pick here, so I don’t know why people are upset. I just disagree on the weight that should be given to certain factors.
We are operating under the assumption that we would pursue a BTN / Longhorn Network-type TV revenue model. Not the SEC’s.
Editor, BC Interruption
I don’t think it would work in all of your markets. It’ll be fine in TX, GA, WI, MN, WA and SC. NC and VA are doubtful to me. You aren’t getting basic cable in LA and probably not in Boston. That’s the problem.
I just kept an open mind in terms of networks when giving my valuations.
You’ve described our round 1, 2, 4, 5, 7 and 10 round draft picks. Obviously as you get up in rounds, the remaining programs won’t provide the same level of market penetration and TV market relevance as the earlier rounds.
Though I will say the ACC has no problem getting on TV in northern Virginia and Boston, and Duke basketball has some national appeal that goes beyond just the Research Triangle.
Editor, BC Interruption
Yes, but ...
The ACC is fairly regional and contains great MBB schools. What happens when most of the teams are from 1000 miles away? How will a Duke/BC football game do in LA?
The whole point of this exercise
Is to ignore geography, a concept you’re clearly not grasping. In our world, Wisconsin and Washington would make great rivals, because miles don’t matter.
The entire point of the conference redraft is to pretend you have a teleporter. And honestly, with our conference, we’re going for CULTURE.
Also, you seem to live in a perfect world where you get exactly the school you want. You need to have weaknesses. I mean, we all like beating up on Washington State every year. Every conference has bottom dwellers because of how virtue of winning and losing works. The Pac-10 was notorious for the parodies it created in scheduling; it was a flip of a coin who would make a bowl and who wouldn’t because we’d all beat each other up in conference. Almost every year someone upset USC.
That’s the type of conference we’re trying to create with the 12-Pac. We’re trying to create a huge revenue producing, academic heavy weight conference, with legitimate sports teams.
You’re missing the entire point of how we’re drafting.
Sorry Brian, for not reading all of the responses before throwing in exactly what you added.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
by jazzaholic17 on Jul 28, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
*parity
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
by jazzaholic17 on Jul 28, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That wasn't my understanding
I thought the point was to ignore geography only in terms of ignoring travel issues and not creating regional conferences. TV networks don’t need to ignore geography, and they know that more fans will watch 2 schools with history play, all else being equal. Cultural differences still exist, too, and will impact potential rivals.
As for the next bit, I don’t see your point. I never said you guys were wrong in your picks, I said I would weight things differently and probably value different aspects. I especially focused on revenue because I think you are using a misleading set of data and drawing erroneous conclusions.
I even waited to say anything until late in the draft so it didn’t seem like I was trying to change your method, just have a discussion about it. In my world, it is possible for reasonable adults to disagree on subjective weighting of a wide range of characteristics to determine the value of something.
Not true.
Washington football has a way stronger following than the Seahawks. And the followings of the two teams are entirely different. There was a huge article on ESPN about it.
Washington was still averaging 60,000 people at games meanwhile the team was going 1-11, 2-10, 0-12, etc. and the Seahawks were doing well.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
by jazzaholic17 on Jul 28, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Late 10th is tough
Of those, I’d rank them IN, PU, MN, Rutgers, NW. I had IN and PU going around #50.
Based on who was available, I would have looked at PU, UCF, Navy, MN, Houston, Army, Hawaii, SMU and ECU. A lot depends on who you already have, of course.
I’d say PU and UCF (you need FL access and UCF brings Orlando), but MN isn’t bad.
So we still took the two highest teams left on your board. Seems like we agree (though I don’t think we really need Florida).
Plus Houston, East Carolina, Hawaii and UCF would really stick out academically.
Editor, BC Interruption
And offer little to no football/hoops balance, which is something we are evaluating (Duke pick aside).
Editor, BC Interruption
Like I said
We just measure things differently. It doesn’t mean we wouldn’t have many similar picks, especially late in the draft when most teams are fairly equal.
I agree the non-AQs would stand out, but that’s what happens in this sort of thing. It’s not like there are a bunch of elite schools left. If you want academics, take Rice.
Academics are definitely a consideration for us — in ways a West Virginia fan will never understand — but it’s not a hard and fast rule.
Rice is a tiny private school — I believe has the smallest enrollment of any non-service academy in the FBS — in a market I think we have fairly well covered with UT.
Editor, BC Interruption
Just to give you the rundown
This is how your conference ended up in my draft:
TX, NE, UCLA, GT, IL, Cal, Stanford, BYU, Utah, Navy, Army, AF
Notes:
1. GA went the pick before NE.
2. GT – Atlanta and keeps the rivalry away from the other conference. I think all of you undervalued them. You guys also didn’t try to screw each other over by blocking rivalries as much as I did.
3. IL – Chicago and lots of potential
4. Cal and Stanford bring SF and great Olympic sports, but those don’t make much money. The flash in the pan of Stanford football last year made people over value them.
5. BYU and Utah bring SLC, millions of LDS fans and a great rivalry with solid sports
6. Navy and Army bring a national following and a storied rivalry.
7. Patriotism forced everyone to let the academies stay together
I think you add another Texas school from C-USA.
Think about this case study: Baylor. Small school that shouldn’t have made it to a BCS league, but the TX governor was a graduate. Sure, Baylor isn’t a world beater by any means, but put it in a conference with some good schools and the revenues come out to be reasonable. Over time, they’ve used this advantage to create a decent mens b-ball program, a great womens b-ball program, good track and field and a below grade football program.
I’m not arguing that Baylor is a good school. In fact, I think if it were kicked out of the Big 12, it’d go back to being C-USA quality. What is worth considering is how well another school would do given the same opportunity. I think SMU could do a little better than Baylor if given the chance. Plus, they can claim some good (but certainly dubous) football history.
It’s probably somewhere between picking up TCU and Baylor— not bad for a last pick. Plus Dallas is a fun road trip.
*Sighs*
BR doesn’t get it. And I don’t want him to.
And no, I don’t want Baylor. Baylor is way too similar to BYU which Washington, UCLA, Virginia, and Wisconsin would never tolerate. You know why BYU didn’t get added to the Pac-12? Because Stanford, Washington, and UCLA would NEVER go for it.
If you look at who we’ve drafted, most of the schools are very good academically and the more highly ranked in terms of academics they are, the more liberal they tend to be. Baylor needs to suck it.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
I'm not lobbying for Baylor
I’m lobbying against them in favor of SMU.
Uh, Please Explain the Difference?
We have Texas. SMU is super conservative. I go to a Methodist university, trust me, I would know.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
Here's my line of thinking
Granted, the next 8 picks could go a number of ways:
(1) Northwestern, Wake Forest, Mississippi State, Rutgers, Baylor, Washington State, Iowa State and Kansas State are the only BCS AQ programs left.
(2) Off that list, Northwestern and Rutgers meet both the academic, and to an extent, market criteria. It is unlikely that either will be available. Miss. State, Baylor and K-State are out due to academics (among other reasons). Wake, Wash. State and Iowa State don’t deliver markets, overlap markets or are terrible in athletics.
So what you have is a situation where you probably should disregard the AQ label and pick a school based on conference fit and potential. Of the non-AQ’s left, there are very few that fit the general mold of the 12 Pack. Keep in mind, the 12 Pack won’t take a non-FBS football member. The other thing to consider is that the service academies, which have a national appeal, are very likely to be scooped up shortly.
So what does that leave? Of the C-USA, MAC, MWC, SBC and WAC, there are very few programs that pass a basic academics filter (USNWR):
C-USA: Rice (17), SMU (56), Tulane (51), & Tulsa (93).
MAC: Miami (Ohio) (79)
MWC: none
SBC: none
WAC: none
Miami of Ohio gets chopped for having no market and a 24k stadium.
From there it is a toss up between C-USA teams. Rice has a nice 70k stadium, but an all-time football record of .440. Tulsa has had reasonable success as of late, but has a 30k stadium. Tulane plays in the Superdome, and New Orleans is fun, but has a 0.467 all-time football record. SMU claims 3 titles, 11 conference titles, has a 0.480 all-time record (boat anchored by the added insult of the death penalty), and plays in a 32k stadium.
So there really isn’t a perfect answer. I picked SMU out of that bunch because they did have some past success, Dallas is a great destination and they could play in Jerry-dome. Yes, it is a small alumni base, but most of the decent schools left are private. At this point, everyone is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Air Force was a good pick by HoTS. 2-3 of the next three picks should be a mix of Army, Navy, & Northwestern.
Rutgers, Baylor, UCF and maybe K-State should make up two of the three picks after that.
Directors Cup:
(35) Baylor
(52) Tulsa
(58) Kansas State
(62) SMU
(63) UCF
(75) SDSU
(102) Houston
(158) Rutgers
(184) Tulane
(192) Rice
Really, the dividing line between the bottom of the AQ’s and the top of the non-AQ’s isn’t defined. Rice and Tulane would be my picks if they had a pulse. Tulsa has decent football facilities (though small), recent success, and a good basketball history. SMU ultimately wins out because they have football history, look to be turning the corner, and could play in Jerry-dome.
Another thing to consider
Check out how well the conference fits to the S.T.E.M. map for innovation/ tech/ business incubation in the country: http://www.creativeclass.com/whos_your_city/maps/#Mega-Regions_of_North_America
Yup
You want to pick up relevant markets in high wealth / growth areas of the country. Which is why we’re not really sweating not having a presence in the Mountain Time Zone (though Arizona State and Colorado both fit this mold).
Editor, BC Interruption
Perhaps this is a better map
http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/2011/07/21/if-metros-were-countries/
Yeah, there are a few markets that would have been nice to grab (San Francisco, Denver, Miami, New Orleans), but it’s a draft and you can’t have it all. That said, you’re sitting nicely with markets.
If Houston wasn’t so terrible at academics and Rice wasn’t so terrible in athletics, I’d pick them over SMU. It’s market overlap, but at least you get another game in good recruiting grounds and you keep your conference profile intact. Plus, UT doesn’t leave the state of Texas if it can help it.
The Texas guys are full up on local rivals. Basically have said they have no interest in adding other Texas programs just for the historical rivalry.
Editor, BC Interruption
Not entirely surprising and probably a good choice given this redraft format.
Most UT guys think they deliver the state by themselves, but a lot of their program strength is derived from playing a lot of games in the state (exposure, pipeline recruiting, grass roots, brand affirmation, etc.). One of the reasons that this ‘UT will go indy’ talk is smoke and mirrors is they’d never give up playing 6-7 home games, plus the OU game in Dallas, plus a road game or two in Lubbock/College Station.
That said, it’s slimmer pickings if you want to stay away from potential overlap. Tulsa isn’t a bad pick, but their stadium is too small. SDSU has potential, but bad academics.
Tulsa is a gold mine!
Beautiful city!!!!!
House Of Sparky: An Arizona State Sun Devils blog
SBN Arizona: The ultimate destination for Arizona sports coverage
by Cory Williams on Aug 3, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Start going after the Ivies
Their Olympic sports are legit, academics are legit, endowments are legit.
Not like the Utah Jazz... it's about REAL jazz. Go Dawgs!
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