Notre Dame vs. Boston College: The One-Sided Holy War Rivalry?
by A.J Black on Jun 2, 2011 2:46 PM EDT
in Boston College Football
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I hate Notre Dame easily more than any other team in college sports. There I said it.
Earlier this week, when Brian emailed me and said "Hey will you write a post on history of the BC-Notre Dame rivalry?" I thought "Oh fantastic, this will give me statistical backing for my ND hate." So I took out my laptop, crunched some numbers, bashed my head on the wall a few times and came up with some interesting data.
But before we get to the fun stuff, let's just bask in the gloriousness of this rivalry. Here are two teams, both with strong Irish Catholic traditions, with fan bases who hate each other based on perceived academic superiority (let's be honest here, BC holds the title there, and I don't need stats to prove it). Each year, the two play each other, and for the most part the games become instant classics. Fans from both schools travel in droves when their team is on the road, and for BC students, the RV trip to South Bend has become a highlight of their college careers.
During the last two seasons, it has been Notre Dame on top, but what if we take the rivalry back a little further. What do the records say and who holds the edge? I'm going to look at statistics from both teams from the last ten years and see where they fall. I didn't bother looking before 2000 because the last ten years have had so much change for both Boston College and Notre Dame. Let's put the Michael Floyd DUI's aside and look at the data:
| Year | Boston College | Notre Dame | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | Pct. | W | L | Pct. | |
| 2000 | 7 | 5 | 0.583 | 9 | 3 | 0.750 |
| 2001 | 8 | 4 | 0.667 | 5 | 6 | 0.455 |
| 2002 | 9 | 4 | 0.692 | 10 | 3 | 0.769 |
| 2003 | 8 | 5 | 0.615 | 5 | 7 | 0.417 |
| 2004 | 9 | 3 | 0.750 | 6 | 6 | 0.500 |
| 2005 | 9 | 3 | 0.750 | 9 | 3 | 0.750 |
| 2006 | 10 | 3 | 0.769 | 10 | 3 | 0.769 |
| 2007 | 11 | 3 | 0.786 | 3 | 9 | 0.250 |
| 2008 | 9 | 5 | 0.643 | 7 | 6 | 0.538 |
| 2009 | 8 | 5 | 0.615 | 6 | 6 | 0.500 |
| 2010 | 7 | 5 | 0.583 | 8 | 5 | 0.615 |
| Totals | 95 | 45 | 0.679 | 78 | 57 | 0.578 |
Based strictly on a wins-loss analysis, BC would have the edge. Strength of schedule has to go to Boston College here. Scheduling USC and Michigan on a regular basis will definitely make your life harder, but how would you explain not regularly beating the service academies? ND aims to build a schedule that just throws the BCS bowls on the Irish's lap. That is all part of ND's "we are part of football's elite" mentality, which as you can see, they haven't been in more than a decade. Notre Dame fans should focus more on being competitive again year in and year out instead of national contenders, but that'll never happen. BC, on the other hand, have been the model of consistency, with no losing seasons, and bowl eligible every year since the new millennium.
Speaking of bowls, let's take a look (via Lake the Posts):
| Boston College | Year | Notre Dame | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bowl | Opponent | Result | Result | Opponent | Bowl | |
| 1995 | L 26-31 | Florida State | Orange | |||
| 1996 | ||||||
| 1997 | L 9-27 | LSU | Independence | |||
| 1998 | L 28-35 | Georgia Tech | Gator | |||
| 1999 | ||||||
| Aloha | Arizona State | W 31-17 | 2000 | L 9-41 | Oregon State | Fiesta |
| Music City | Georgia | W 20-16 | 2001 | |||
| Motor City | Toledo | W 51-25 | 2002 | L 6-28 | N.C. State | Gator |
| San Francisco | Colorado State | W 35-21 | 2003 | |||
| Continental Tire | North Carolina | W 37-24 | 2004 | L 21-38 | Oregon State | Insight |
| MPC Computers | Boise State | W 27-21 | 2005 | L 20-34 | Ohio State | Fiesta |
| Meineke Car Care | Navy | W 25-24 | 2006 | L 14-41 | LSU | Sugar |
| Champs Sports | Michigan State | W 24-21 | 2007 | |||
| Music City | Vanderbilt | L 14-16 | 2008 | W 49-21 | Hawai'i | Hawai'i |
| Emerald | USC | L 13-24 | 2009 | |||
| Kraft Fight Hunger | Nevada | L 13-20 | 2010 | W 33-17 | Miami | Sun |
It's not very tough to pick a winner in this debate. BC has a much better record in their bowls 8-3, to Notre Dame's 2-8. And honestly, I don't care if the Irish were in higher ranked bowls -- if you don't win, you don't win (ask UConn how that feels). Getting stomped in BCS bowls doesn't do much for the credibility of your program (again talk to UConn).
BC, on the other hand, has taken care of business with the bowls they have been assigned to. Could some of these teams beaten better teams in better bowls? That's an interesting question, but the bowl BC has been selected to was not dictated by skill, but mostly due to the fact that our fans travel very poorly.
Other notable statistics:
-- In the Holy War since 2000, Boston College has 6 wins to Notre Dame's 3.
-- BC has had eight first round NFL Draft picks since 2000, compared to Notre Dame's 2.
-- Since 2004, BC has had 9 wins against ranked opponents. Notre Dame has 7.
-- While BC has never had an ESPN Top 25 recruiting class, Notre Dame has been on the list every year since the site kept track in 2006.
-- In 2010, Notre Dame spent $29.4 million dollars on its football program while Boston College spent $17.2 million.
As the stats and numbers have shown, BC has dominated over the past 11 seasons in almost all categories. For a team that is always on network television and always in the top #25, Notre Dame hasn't been able to do the things BC has done over the past ten years, whether they are meager accomplishments or not.
But are the winds changing for these two Catholic rivals? Notre Dame looked much improved last year, and Brian Kelly could have the Irish heading in the right direction, while Spaz has the Eagles mired in the muck of mediocrity.
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Thanks for admitting your hate!
Interesting article. I find it convienent that you only look at the last ten years. Both schools have rich, longstanding football traditions. We all know why you only look at the last ten years instead of the entire history of each school. Enjoy the last ten years as it is likely the last time you will ever be able to run stats like that again.
Oh, and your strenght of schedule argument is about as week as it could be. USC, Michigan, Stanford, Michigan State each and every year. Semi regualr meetings with Georgia Tech, Tennesee, Miami, and Texas.
I get it your a homer on a BC blog, it is ok to hate Notre Dame but really why do you only use statisitcs where they benefit you? Why didnt you post each teams strenght of schedule? Because it wouldnt support your position?
Go Irish whoop some BC butt!! Add to the BC hate… :)
good luck to the Eagles on the rest of their season. I like to see the Irish whoop up on you but I dont hate BC, It is a nice little Catholic school.
I get it your a homer on a BC blog, it is ok to hate Notre Dame but really why do you only use statisitcs where they benefit you?
You’ve just explained the entire sports blog industry since forever. GG.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
Last 10 years SOS does favor the Irish ...
But shouldn’t that always be the case? Seems like you are comparing apples to oranges when you consider Notre Dame gets to hand-pick the 12 teams it faces each year (and still schedules the likes of Nevada, Tulsa, Western Michigan and San Diego State). BC gets to select just 3-4 opponents each year and doesn’t have a choice in playing Duke, Wake Forest, Rutgers, UConn, etc., which weighs down SOS.
Also, Irish SOS will always get a boost from facing a bowl team ND has no business playing (i.e. all Irish bowl games from 1995-2006. BC typically gets paired against a bowl team below its level of play.
Here are the actual stats, using Sagarin’s final SOS ranking over the last 10 years (numbers are from 2010 and working backwards):
Notre Dame (avg. 19.9) — 22, 37, 50, 24, 18, 14, 5, 1, 14, 14
Boston College (avg. 46.4) — 31, 43, 35, 45, 44, 22, 74*, 50, 63, 57
- * Both Virginia Tech and Miami had bolted for the 2004 Big East season so BC played just a 6-team conference sched and had to backfill with Ball State, Penn State, Wake, UMass and the Irish (which, by the way, BC won)
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
We all know why you only look at the last ten years instead of the entire history of each school
I only did that because the last ten years have shown that Notre Dame isn’t an elite school like they think yearly, and they are a team more on the same level of BC. ND has been on that level for a decade now, I don’t think I was deceptive on the years I selected. Notre Dame hasn’t shown that they are ready to take that next step yet.
Did I cherry pick my stats? Duh, I don’t have all day to crunch numbers, unless Brian wants to hire me a statistical assistant.
Contributor at BC Interruption
Founder of Mass Hysteria Sports
i think the real hate
is not because Notre Dame is an Irish Catholic academic rival, rather it comes from of the unwavering favoritism for its program that BC will never have the privilege of enjoying… what ND fans dont seem to get is that they SHOULD dominate us every year because they are one of the most desirable schools for recruits/coaches to land at (a list BC is at the bottom of). If ND returns to its former prestige then that does nothing to refute why we hate it as a school because it doesn’t retract the decade of blowing that you have done without a single hit being taken to your reputation as an “elite program”. You guys have been afforded the ability to suck year in and year out and still have so many opportunities the BC football program will never get.
that’s the worst part about it…ND gets this elite program status every year no matter what.
Even though ND has a slight edge in the all-time series against BC (11-9), it’s just frustrating that ND gets all this attention because of their success decades ago while BC has been much better the last decade. ND fans still think that they are far superior to BC in all things, especially football, when this isn’t true.
Winds of change
BC has some significant victories against ND. Frank Leahy had an undefeated season for BC. David Gordon is almost the household name of Doug Flutie. Lou Holtz ran up the score 54-7 and stimulated the rousing reaction. However, the winds appear to be blowing the other way. Brian Kelly is stabilizing a reeling program. Spaziani is butchering a good thing. Someone needs to step in now.
An Idea
JBQ you need an icon for your profile. I have a Fire Spaz icon I once used on Twitter but have no use for it anymore. I think it would be PERFECT for you.
Contributor at BC Interruption
Founder of Mass Hysteria Sports
This is why I hate Notre Dame Fans
From one of their message boards on Rivals. This is after they bashed me and called me not “objective”. Duh.
Dear BC, please note that while you’re a great school, to say that you’re academically and athletically superior to ND is an absolute joke. And enough with the talk of “rivalry.” You’re sadly somewhere around seventh on that totem pole.
1. USC (our Rival)
2. Michigan (our enemy)
3. Navy (our Friend)
4t. Purdue
4t. Michigan State
4t. Pitt
7. BC
How cute. I’m glad you see Navy as a bigger rival than BC.
Contributor at BC Interruption
Founder of Mass Hysteria Sports
Navy
Just as an FYI, the Notre Dame- Navy “rivalry” is 71-12 in the Irish’s favor. Maybe their fans are just confused and consider pounding the crap out of a hapless service academy every year a rivalry.
Contributor at BC Interruption
Founder of Mass Hysteria Sports
I would say they are very confused if they consider half their annual football schedule to be “rivals” …
That’s like saying BC has rivalries with Virginia Tech, Florida State, Clemson, Maryland, N.C. State and Wake Forest because we play them ever year.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
I'd say of that list
only Virginia Tech or Clemson can truly develop into a good rival. They obviously have greater rivals, but if we keep playing “classic” games against them and it stays fairly even it will start to develop into a greater one.
But your right- is FSU or Maryland a rival because we play them every year? No. Just like how Purdue or Pitt shouldn’t be one of theirs.
Let’s face it, Notre Dame’s only trump on us is their storied history. Post 2000, we’ve been a superior program.
I’m surprised Army and Air Force didn’t make the list over BC …
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
One thing I always find funny about this argument..
Whenever ND says “hey BC guess what you aren’t even our biggest rival…USC and Michigan are!!” they fail to see the irony in their statement. One could argue they aren’t either of those two teams’ number 1 rival. USC could argue that UCLA is a bigger rival (same city, same conference, play each other last game every year, plus UCLA seems to beat USC every once in a while). And then you have Michigan, who hires/fires coaches based on if they can beat Ohio State, not Notre Dame. Even Navy would probably consider Army a bigger rival, even if Army is terrible year-in and year-out. I know I’m stating the obvious here, but ND fans are obviously delusional and need a reality check.
by bcfan131 on Jun 2, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's a great point
Taking it a step further … USC isn’t always Notre Dame’s final opponent of the season. The Irish have alternated finishing with either USC or Stanford since the 1998 season. And I think if hard-pressed, fans of USC and Stanford would say that UCLA and Cal were their school’s primary rivals, respectively. Not Notre Dame.
I understand that it’s a relatively new rivalry but BC and ND should absolutely play every season, without question. None of this a few years on, a few years off stuff. Until Villanova joins the fold — if they ever even do — Division I-A’s two Catholic schools should play every year. I think BC has shown over the last 20+ years that they can hang with the Irish, and the two schools seem like perfect foils / rivals to one another.
If only Irish fans would take a step back from Rudy, the Four Horsemen, Frank Leahy and leather helmets, they’d realize that the six BCS conferences are cheapening Notre Dame’s established “rivalries” with schools like USC, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue and Pitt. The conference format has made games between USC-UCLA, Michigan-Ohio State, Michigan-Michigan State, Purdue-Indiana (but who cares) and Pitt-West Virginia mean much more than Notre Dame vs. any of those schools. And Notre Dame vs. a service academy will never mean as much as games for the Commander-in-Chief Trophy (Army-Navy, Navy-Air Force, Air Force-Navy).
For a program like BC who has struggled to develop a primary rivalry in football — Syracuse has Rutgers, or UConn … Virginia Tech has Virginia … Miami has Florida State … Maryland has … basketball — Notre Dame is a natural fit. So let’s stop beating around the bush and all embrace the use of the capital R “rivalry” when talking BC-ND. And let’s make this an annual thing, k?
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
A USC alum's perspective
In football it isn’t even close. ND is the rival, ucla is a bratty little sister. I doubt I’ll find a non-bandwagoner USC fan who thinks otherwise.
As far as BC being an ND rival, I’m sorry, but among my ND friends and family (much of my family went to ND), BC isn’t even on their radar. Suggesting that BC is ND’s seventh most-important rival is off, as I’m not sure BC rates that high. First, you’ve only played 20 times and had a gap as recently as 2005-2006. Among recent opponents, ND has played more games with USC, Navy, Michigan, Michigan State, Army, Air Force, Pitt, Purdue, and Stanford. Of those, Navy and Air Force are the only ones without a national championship. Notre Dame’s first national championship was sealed with a win over Stanford.
My impression of the average ND fan’s opinion of the importance of BC is that BC is an annoying upstart. I’m not sure the word “rival” even belongs in the same sentence.
by Topher Kersting on Jun 10, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The upstarts
So when does the upstart label get removed? How many more wins over the Irish is it going to take?
You all seem to have a warped sense of what constitutes a rivalry. OK, so you’ve played Army 30 more times than BC. You also enjoy an .800 winning percentage against the Black Knights. A rivalry has to be competitive to mean something. Army hasn’t beat the Irish since the late 1950s. Some rivalry.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
out of context
BCH,
You’re taking my post on Rivals both out of context and out of order. It was the first post on the subject, so no one (me) at that point could have bashed you or called you out for not being objective. I realize that you’re writing to a BC audience, but my point was that it seemed strange that there was so much enthusiasm about whats been your schools most consistent decade being better than ND’s most inconsistent decade.
Also, perhaps I used the word “rivalry” incorrectly – what I was getting at was games in terms of importance, historically. I for one view USC as our rival, anything other than that is a “traditional opponent”, BC included.
And for the record, I enjoy the back and forth/trash talking of the ND-BC series and really enjoy the series with you guys. I think we should play you guys every year, without exception, and I think what has been a great series over the last 15 years can definitely develop into one of the great rivalries in CFB – I just don’t think its there yet, and I would guess most ND fans and alums over 25 would probably agree.
and for the benefit of your readers, heres what you left out from my original post (and the point of the thread I started on Rivals)…
“This article popped up on my ND football news feed and it had me scratching my head. I don’t understand the chest thumping when the article really makes it clear that the last 10 years have arguably been our worst and also BC’s best. The article seems to argue that BC football is superior and that our series is one-sided based on that trend.”
BronxND — the series has been one-sided the past decade. I don’t think Irish fans can dispute this fact. Also, to be fair to BCHysteria, he does make it clear towards the end of the article that he thinks things may be changing:
“But are the winds changing for these two Catholic rivals? Notre Dame looked much improved last year, and Brian Kelly could have the Irish heading in the right direction, while Spaz has the Eagles mired in the muck of mediocrity.”
Anyway, it got us all talking, so that’s something, right?
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
To be clear, while the “last 10 years have arguably been ND’s worst, and also BC’s best,” the Holy War is a relatively new series / rivalry / whatever. We are really only talking about the 1990s and 2000s for the BC-ND series.
So while you say that we are cherry picking the 2000s to puff out our chests and tout college football superiority, the only other time period we could include is the 1990s, where BC still held its own going 3-5 from 1992-1999, including playing spoiler in 1993 for Holtz running up the score the year before. It’s not like BC was blown away by the Irish in the 1990s and then flipped the script in the 2000s.
And as described below in the records, the Eagles have played the Irish closer than every program on the below list but two — Penn State and Michigan.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
One thing we can agree on is that BC and Notre Dame should play annually. I think it’s as natural a college football rivalry as you can get — two like-minded, Catholic universities.
Plus, the Irish really have to stop playing footsies with other program’s primary rivals. As bcfan131 pointed out, none of those programs on your list would consider Notre Dame to be its primary rival:
1. USC — UCLA
2. Michigan — Ohio State, Michigan State
3. Navy — Army
4t. Purdue — Indiana
4t. Michigan State — Michigan (or their forced B1G Ten rival, Penn State)
4t. Pittsburgh — West Virginia
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
The only team I would disagree with on that list is our actual primary rival, USC. Again, I think only relatively young fans (or bandwagon Poodle era fans) would think that ND is not their primary rival. I think for them, UCLA is similar to our Michigan (not their rival, but their enemy).
I think the one thing that detracts from our rivalry with Southern Cal is that it tends to be streaky (6 in a row for one school, seven in a row for another). I suppose the list I gave, and if you add in Stanford, has become our defacto “conference schedule.”
We can agree to disagree, I guess
I don’t think the intersectional USC-Notre Dame rivalry approaches the USC-UCLA rivalry, and here’s why:
When USC and Notre Dame hook up, especially recently, it hasn’t meant much other than for pride. It’s a nice intersection rivalry, but I think due to the lack of a shared conference and geography, doesn’t approach USC-UCLA levels.
The positioning of USC-UCLA on the schedule — the final regular season game of the year — to me implies a little more importance on that rivalry. Many times that game has served as the de facto Pac-10 title game (or determined the conference champ), and while UCLA hasn’t been very competitive in this series lately, they still played the role of spoiler in 2006. With the new Pac-12 format, this game will have even more implications on the Pac-12 Championship Game and possibly the conference’s BCS bowl representatives.
Sure, USC and Notre Dame are two similar programs and academic institutions (read: rich, white kid schools), but I don’t think that overtakes a rivalry based on close proximity and a shared conference.
Still kinda think you are trying to claim other school’s primary rivals because you are afraid to use the capital letter “R” word to refer to BC.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
Especially in a city as large as Los Angeles that doesn’t have a professional football franchise.
I mean, is Notre Dame taking out full page ads in the South Bend Tribune touting that the football monopoly in the USC-Notre Dame intersectional rivalry is over? …
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
USC-UCLA may battle for dominance in LA or for a Rose Bowl berth, but USC-ND battle for the nation. The series has produced 22 national championships and 14 heismans, while UCLA has only one MNC.
As I said , I think USC-UCLA is more on the level of ND-Michigan (or Michigan-MSU). The only rivalries in college football that come close to ND-USC are Michigan-Ohio State, Alabama-Auburn, and Texas-Oklahoma.
Cheese!
“USC-ND battle for the nation”
The series hasn’t produced 22 National Championships; those two programs have won 22 National Championships.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
In addition to the 22, fourteen times one of the two basically pulled a ’93 (for lack of a better term) on the other and ended their perfect season, seven times in the last week of the season. That would be 36 meetings that had direct impacts on the national title.
Again, since when?
When was the last time this happened? How many times has this happened in the post-BCS era?
Like I said, the BCS and the Big Six conference format has changed the game. Until Notre Dame starts competing for National Championships again, this game will be a nice little non-conference matchup but won’t mean much compared to in-conference matchups.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
by Brian Favat on Jun 4, 2011 12:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
’95 was the last time that directly happened. You could make a case that the “Bush Push” game in ’05 was the last to have true direct national title implications, though Southern Cal would go on to lose to Texas.
Had ND gone held on to win, one could argue that they, having defeated #1 SC would have been facing Texas as well. Obviously that wouldn’t have had a different result than SC, since we lost by 14 to Ohio State (#6) in the Fiesta Bowl anyway.
Right
One time in the BCS era. The BCS has altered which are the best rivalries in college football. ND-USC simply doesn’t mean what it used to … just like Army-Navy isn’t quite the same as it was when both programs were national powerhouses.
As with most things related to ND football, seems like a lot of living in the past.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
But thats just the thing – rivalry is completely about history. The history is what makes the rivalry great, what gives it its power, and what binds people’s interest. And in terms of college football ‘95 and ’05 are not the distant past. We aren’t talking about the days of Fordham and Harvard winning MNCs.
This is exactly my point about the ND-BC rivalry. There is a good foundation (because its still relatively young), but it doesn’t have the history of the SC series, or even the Miami series, that would someday make it great. Like I say below, as long as our ADs keep scheduling the game, the history (and the actual rivalry) can only grow.
One more thing about the conferences and the BCS too – it very well could have changed our rivalry with SC, but it didn’t. ND and SC continue to play each other because of how important the game is to the other. There have been no breaks like there has with Michigan and there has been no cancellation of the series like there was with Pitt and Penn State.
TV and the BCS
The game might still mean something to both programs, but the rest of the country tuned out. That’s why your statement about “ND-USC battling for the nation” is laughable, especially in recent years.
This year’s USC-Notre Dame game wasn’t even televised nationally. It was an ABC regional split broadcast with Oklahoma-Oklahoma State that drew a 4.9 overnight. Auburn-Alabama (7.3, CBS), Boise State-Virginia Tech (6.3, ESPN), Florida-Alabama (5.0, CBS) and Georgia-Auburn (5.0, CBS) all outdrew the ND-USC / OSU-OU regional broadcast.
NBC college football viewership was down 12 percent year over year.
USC and Notre Dame weren’t playing meaningful football in October this year so fans tuned out. As you pointed out, the rivalry hasn’t had National title implications in over 15 years.
In the BCS era, television and games with conference championship and/or BCS National Championship implications are going to become the best rivalries in the sport. That’s why rivalries like Oklahoma-Texas, Auburn-Alabama, Florida-Georgia, Georgia-Auburn, Michigan-Ohio State, Florida-Florida State, Florida State-Miami, etc. etc. are all going to surpass USC-ND in terms of relevance and importance. That is, if they haven’t already.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
Then by your logic, ND-BC will also never be as important as say, BC-VT, correct? Because who cares about a rivalry that doesn’t decide the ACC then. So why claim that ND is your primary rival at all?
Because as I mentioned, BC has struggled to develop a primary football rival.
The ACC put Miami and Virginia Tech in the other division, so those games don’t mean as much as BC’s Atlantic Division games against Florida State, Clemson, N.C. State, Wake Forest and Maryland. All of the other Atlantic Division programs have other primary football rivals — Florida/Miami, South Carolina, North Carolina, Duke/N.C. State and West Virginia/Navy/Virginia/whatever, respectively.
If the original ACC expansion plan went through, BC’s primary rival would have probably continued to be Syracuse. As it turned out though, BC (and Maryland) are the only two ACC programs that haven’t developed any really good primary football rivalries.
As I’ve outlined, the BCS, ESPN and these massive Big Six TV media rights deals will continue to shape the best rivalries in the sport, and instead of Notre Dame fans clinging to these antiquated notions that USC, Michigan, Navy are your primary rivals, you should embrace BC as the school’s primary rival and do everything you can to put the Eagles on the schedule every season.
You either love Notre Dame or you hate Notre Dame. Either way, there are a lot of Catholics across the country that would be interested in seeing I-A’s two Catholic schools face off on the gridiron every year. The series probably won’t have National title implications and won’t be a ratings blockbuster, but a continual BC-ND series would be special to Catholics in the same way that the Army-Navy rivalry is to the armed forces and the rest of the nation.
But if you want to continue to convince yourself that USC-Notre Dame means something beyond those two fan bases, or cling to the fact that this series has National title implications when it hasn’t mattered in 15+ years, that’s cool, too. BC will just continue to play the Irish close and play you every few years when you throw the Eagles program a bone. Whatever.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
It's all good
I by no means wanted to be trolling your site, but I’m glad you came over here to continue the conversation. I know the title of my article was a bit misleading, but as Brian mentions below I concede that this rivalry is heading in a whole other direction. Will Notre Dame be contenders this year? Probably not. Will they beat BC? Odds are in their favor. I am just stating some facts from the period I chose to study. After all I have another job and a life, I can’t be analyzing 30 years of data.
I understand totally that I took a small window here, but I felt it was a good chunk to use. You have to admit that it has been a tough ten years for ND given the rich history the school had before 2000. You guys nailed it, I am a BC homer, and yes I say some things that may get some other teams fans upset, but it’s all in good fun. I’ve had many a friends who spent time at ND for the games, and the fans were nothing less than great hosts to them.
Cheers.
Contributor at BC Interruption
Founder of Mass Hysteria Sports
No accusations of “trolling” from me – I linked your article; I think its only natural you want to see what people are saying about it.
I think Brian’s comment above about BC struggling to find a “natural” rival is close to being right, but in truth (whether I or other ND alums like to admit it), that “natural rival” indeed is, or rather should be, us.
For a time Miami became a “primary rival” of ours – we had some classic battles over a similar stretch of time as our recent history with you guys, but once they dissapeared from the schedule so did that rivalry. I think for our series to grow into what it should and could be, its incredibly important that both of our ADs work to make sure we’re always on the schedule.
And don’t get me wrong – saying things like “you’re not a rival”, belittling your history, etc. and being that jerk older brother who treats you like a kid even though you’re grown up, have a job & family of your own, is part of what makes the rivalry fun. Its also evidence that there in fact is something to the series. Most older brothers don’t want to admit that they’ve lost anything on their younger sibling.
I think most alums and fans say stuff like that because they know it gets to BC folks (like it does all of my BC friends). If it was all peace, love, and unicorns, it wouldn’t be much fun though, would it?
Older brother ?
Hardly — pesky annoying .younger brother Is more like it? What school has th eoldest fight song in the nation. We do But More like cousin nobody likes but your mother makes you be nice to him. Yuk. See below
Notre Dame Most All-Time Games Played <> Rivals
Notre Dame’s All-Time Games Played (Record in Parenthesis)
1. Navy — 84 games (71-12-1)
2. Purdue — 82 (54-26-2)
3. Southern Cal — 82 (43-34-2)
4. Michigan State — 74 (45-28-1)
5. Pittsburgh — 66 (45-20-1)
6. Army — 50 (38-8-4)
7. Northwestern — 47 (37-8-2)
8. Michigan — 38 (15-22-1)
9. Georgia Tech — 34 (27-6-1)
10. Indiana — 29 (23-5-1)
11. Air Force — 28 (22-6-0)
12. Stanford — 25 (17-8-0)
13. Iowa — 24 (13-8-3)
14. Miami — 24 (16-7-1)
15. Boston College — 20 (11-9-0)
16t. Carnegie Mellon — 19 (15-4-0)
16t. Penn State — 19 (9-9-1)
18. North Carolina — 18 (16-2-0)
19t. Nebraska — 16 (7-8-1)
19t. Wisconsin — 16 (8-6-2)
Yes, BC is a relatively new “rivalry” for the Irish. But just because the Eagles have played the Irish the 15th most in school history, doesn’t instantly disqualify BC as a rival.
Take a look at some of those records. There are only four programs on that list where the Irish have an all-time winning percentage less than .600 — USC (.555), BC (.550), Penn State (.500) and Michigan (.408). BC won six consecutive games in the series from 2001-2008, the most consecutive Ws in the series.
Claiming programs like Navy (.851), Pittsburgh (.689), Stanford (.680) or Purdue (.670) “rivals” when you beat them more than 2 out of every 3 times is plain stupid.
A rivalry can’t be one-sided. The other team has to win with some regularity for a series to be a true, modern college football rivalry.
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
I want some more shots at the Irish
while they are still crap. Tech deserves more victories over the Irish after the dumpfest we suffered in the 70’s as an independent flailing on the kitchen floor of major football.
I write stuff From the Rumble Seat.
ND is like that cousin
You kinda like, until you are forced at a family party to spend time with him
It is then that you realize - no matter what - your cuz (ND), although a part of your extended family, is just a Super Dick. Your cuz is incapable of a fun mutual relationship. U can’t joke around with him. He is just not someone u ever want to hang with. He has no manners and is conceited with no basis to be conceited. Then you find out your cuz is not even irish. – he is some kind of sausage eating Slav (and slob). Yeesch.
These ND guys are also so uncool when u meet them in real world. That dickishness just never goes away!
Word is that with the B1G looking to create its own hockey conference, ND is considering a move to Hockey East. I think that would go a long way towards building the ND-BC rivalry in general, especially as good as BC has been traditionally and ND has been recently.
Yes
The Irish coming East makes a lot of sense. There are similar private, Catholic schools — BC, Providence, Merrimack — and a Big East friend in Providence. The Irish would help improve Hockey East and also help the conference get a better TV deal in their next round of negotiations.
Notre Dame to the HEA makes more sense than standing pat in the CCHA, heading west to the WCHA or becoming an associate hockey member of the BTHC in 2013-14 (which I’m sure the conference will make much tougher on ND and won’t easily just offer up membership without further prodding the whole football independence thing).
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
ND is like that cousin....
If that’s not the biggest joke of a post – I don’t know what is….What a clown you are waterwater.
Go Irish
BC and ND, not in same league, BC is ND wannabe
Speaking from the outside looking in. From here, BC does not appear in the same class as Notre Dame. Not in academics, sports, or anything. I’ll bet lots of BC guys tried to get into ND but couldn’t – hence the hatred and bitterness if this article. There us no comparison in the academics or their schedules. BCs schedule is nothing compared to NDs. What a joke to even compare them.
The Academic / Admissions Fallacy
I’ll bet lots of BC guys tried to get into ND but couldn’t …
Raise your hand if you applied to both BC and Notre Dame, got rejected by Notre Dame but accepted by BC and went to school on the Heights. I certainly didn’t, and I know few, if any, who did …
The real joke here is acting like there is an enormous chasm between BC and Notre Dame in terms of academics. That’s a good one. Please tell me another.
Let me guess: schools like Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Cal, UCLA, USC, Virginia and North Carolina aren’t in Notre Dame’s league academically, either …
BC Interruption, SBN's Boston College Eagles blog
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