ACC Divisions: Syracuse Or Pittsburgh To The ACC Atlantic?
by Brian Favat on Dec 9, 2011 12:01 PM EST
in Conference Expansion
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Last week, ACC Commissioner John Swofford hinted at how Pittsburgh and Syracuse will eventually get slotted into the conference ... whenever that might finally happen.
"I think nine (conference) games are probable in football. I think it's more likely to be maintaining the divisions and plugging Pitt and Syracuse into the existing divisions. Recognizing the equity that's been built in the two divisions as you have them now. The competition, it's amazing how close it is. It's almost 50-50 (the Atlantic leads 68-64, including title games). We're not there yet. That could change, but the tenor of the conversations has been in that direction.
"Basketball, I think 18 games are probable as opposed to 16, and I think no divisions are more likely than having divisions."
This particular divisional split has been rumored for quite some time, with both the Virginia and Virginia Tech ADs supporting keeping the Atlantic and Coastal Divisions. It's all in the name of brand equity, you know.
Now while Swofford says "we're not there yet," all indications are that this is the way the conference is going to go. Which leaves us with the question -- should Syracuse or Pittsburgh join Boston College in the ACC Atlantic?
Syracuse blog Troy Nunes is an Absolute Magician thinks that it's probably more important for Syracuse to end up with BC, from a rivalry and hate perspective:
I think it's more important that we end up in the same division with Boston College, whom we hate a lot more. FYI, they're in the Atlantic Division.
That said, the Coastal Division might be a better overall fit. That's Virginia Tech, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Miami, Duke and North Carolina. We have strong history with two of them and it would be nice to have Duke on the schedule every year. Who doesn't like beating Duke in anything?
I'm excited when Duke falls on BC's schedule every year too, but how that'd work out for us this year? Someone might want to clue Cuse fans into this fact.
From a rivalry and hatred perspective, I would prefer having Syracuse in the Atlantic over Pittsburgh. I also think that Pitt is probably the stronger football program, considering that Cuse has been more or less awful in football since we parted ways back in 2005 (with apologies to the 2010 Orange). So ... better shot at an annual W, amiright?
The other option is that Pitt is slotted into the Atlantic, Syracuse to the Coastal, and the Orange replaces the Hokies as BC's permanent cross-over rival. Though a Virginia Tech-Pitt rivalry seems just as forced as Virginia Tech-BC.
Either way, I'd imagine if Boston College gets its way, we'll push hard to play Syracuse every season. Whether that's as Atlantic Division rivals or a cross-over divisional rival remains to be seen. It would be a shame to watch a rivalry 46 games in the making only hit the football schedule roughly once every three seasons (BC-Miami'd).
Then again, BC may not have as much of a say in where Pitt and Syracuse get slotted based on other ACC program's interests. DeFilippo (ESPN?) got his way with who the ACC selected as programs 13 and 14, and may not have a say in where those two programs are slotted.
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Should the ACC even keep the cross divisional alignment? WIth a 9 game conference schedule, that’d mean that there were only 2 rotating games in the other division. To me that puts waaaay too much time between some match ups. Better to just make a 9 game sched and rotate the 3 coastal opponents around. Yeah I know, you lose UVA-UNC and FSU-Miami every year, but that’s the price of going to 14 members. This is how the PAC-12 does it, and I must say, I much prefer how they let the team with the best conf. record host the championship game. Death to neutral site conf. championshps in the ACC.
by chicagofire1871 on Dec 9, 2011 12:38 PM EST reply actions
Championship Game
I much prefer how they let the team with the best conf. record host the championship game. Death to neutral site conf. championshps in the ACC.
Please no. The second …
a) a power program like FSU, Clemson or Virginia Tech has to go on the road to play at a small-ish stadium like BC (don’t laugh), Wake or Duke, or
b) a southern program has to play in the elements at BC, Pitt, Maryland, Virginia Tech
Based on one of those programs having an easier conference SOS, and hence a better conference record, those programs will flip the F out.
The Championship Game in Charlotte is working — centrally located, it’s actually an ACC city (unlike Jacksonville (SEC) and Tampa (Big East). Keep it there and build up some brand equity along the lines of the SEC title game in Atlanta.
Conference football championship games played on campus or on a Friday night seems WAY too Conference USA-ish.
Editor, BC Interruption
Should the ACC even keep the cross divisional alignment?
The conference is going to have to. That’s the price we will continue to pay for deciding to split up Florida State and Miami. There’s zero percent chance the ACC will set up the schedule such that there’s a season where there’s no FSU-Miami, Clemson-GT or N.C. State-North Carolina game.
Even if you realign the divisions and go North-South … one of the Carolina schools is odd man out. North schools will complain that they don’t get to Florida and the Carolinas often enough for recruiting. Etc. etc.
Editor, BC Interruption
There's another option:
North/South split with Miami in the North/East, cross-divisional rivals as follows:
FSU – Miami
UNC – UVA
Clem – Maryland
NCSU – BC
Duke – Syr
Wake – Pitt
GT – VPI
by WilliamJD on Dec 10, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Perhaps just selfish, but I’d prefer to have Clemson as a cross rival – great trip and great fanbase.
This is my preference, too.
Don’t care who the cross-divisionals are aside from FSU/UM.
Brian, Tampa is not a Big East town.
F the Deacs - Notre Dame, Rutgers and UConn to the ACC
---------------------------------------------------------
MiNDSET? SWAG-ER-ISM!!!
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Wherever you are, Trick, you are wise, indeed.
Correct, Sir Trick.
You truly are one of God's treasures, Trick
Please dump VT as our crossover-rival game
The other option is that Pitt is slotted into the Atlantic, Syracuse to the Coastal, and the Orange replaces the Hokies as BC’s permanent cross-over rival. Though a Virginia Tech-Pitt rivalry seems just as forced as Virginia Tech-BC
It is awful that we must play the best ACC team every friggin’ year. Plus, while BCers seem to think of VT as a familiar rivalry of sorts, VT does not. I do not think they give a hoot about BC. Ok, maybe one hook, err, hoot.
I like ’Cuse as the cross-over rival game! Good idea.
I do not really care if they are in the same division as BC or not. Pitt will be a good annual game too. Clemson (grrrrr) also is a fun F-U-buddy game, FSU is exciting. Maryland and NCSU are meh.
If ACC goes to 9 conference games , then there would only be 3 OOC games. We need to drop one annual OOC. It will not be the FCS game (guaranteed win). Our remaining 2 OOC games should just be cream puffs — the ACC will be hard enough. Maybe drop ND. Who needs those guys at all? BC certainly does not. I think we demean ourselves playing ND. ND’s permanent arrogance just has become intolerable.
ND is the one game that BC is guaranteed to sell out even when we are bad. Unless ND is demanding a 2 for 1 from us, no way BC voluntarily takes them off the schedule.
Our OCC will look like ND, creampuff and regional academic school that takes BC out off the east coast. Fr.Leahy specifically wanted NW, USC, and Stanford to appeal to the large alumni bases in those states.
by chicagofire1871 on Dec 9, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
With one less non-conference game, the games against NU, USC and Stanford will be the first to go. Though those games were not only for the large alumni bases in those states, but also to pit BC against academic peer schools (see also: Northwestern’s non-conference scheduling philosophy).
Irish arrogance aside, BC needs Notre Dame on the schedule to remain relevant nationally.
Future non-conference schedules will become:
- Notre Dame (or BCS academic peer school in years where we don’t get ND … Northwestern, USC, Stanford, Vanderbilt)
- Non-AQ creampuff (e.g. MACrificial lamb, including UMass)
- I-AA opponent
There is zero chance the I-AA game is taken off the schedule (guaranteed win), and the BCS academic peer schools will come off the schedule in favor of a MAC cream puff.
Editor, BC Interruption
I have to point out that BU and UConn are your academic peers as much as Northwestern. There are 18 USNews ranked schools between BC and Northwestern and 22 and 28 between BC, BU and UConn.
Umm, no
You can’t look at USN&WR rankings straight up without filtering out schools that don’t play football (Boston U.) and ones that aren’t in a BCS AQ conference when arbitrarily determining “BCS academic peer schools.”
5. Stanford
10. Duke
12. Northwestern
17. Vanderbilt
19. Notre Dame
21. California
23. USC
25. UCLA
25. Virginia
25. Wake Forest
28. Michigan
29. North Carolina
31. Boston College
36. Georgia Tech
38. Miami
42. Washington
42. Wisconsin
45. Penn State
45. Illinois
45. Texas
55. Ohio State
55. Maryland
58. Texas A&M
58. Florida
58. Pittsburgh
58. Connecticut
I don’t think anyone would tell you that BC-Texas A&M, BC-Florida, BC-Pittsburgh or BC-UConn are academic peer schools with a straight face. Sorry.
Editor, BC Interruption
Joe q. sportscenter watcher doesn’t apply your filters.
Your saying that BC should only be compared to schools that are academically ranked higher? I know I’m trolling but that’s just silly.
not only higher...but not 27 spots lower
i’d say the range of academic peers is basically from notre dame to penn state/illinois/texas… northwestern is half-step higher and UConn is a step lower
Applying filters ...
I said BC should schedule its “BCS academic peer schools.” You counter with BU and UConn.
Boston U. doesn’t even sponsor varsity football and I’m not sure how long the Big East holds onto its BCS AQ status (UConn).
If you want to go by your ridiculous logic, sure, by definition, BC’s academic peer schools range from Stanford (-26 spots) to Maryland (+24 spots). Texas A&M, Florida, Pittsburgh and UConn don’t make the cut.
Sad panda.
Editor, BC Interruption
Don’t think it’s a BF original … I read it somewhere a while back. Have been using it here and there since August.
http://www.bcinterruption.com/2011/8/5/2346664/acc-football-nine-game-conference-schedule
Editor, BC Interruption
That's fine
I look forward to UMass v. BC matchups even if UMass is the mac-arific lamb. Beats playing central ct, and towson.
I’d rather play a MAC-rificial lamb from the Midwest for recruiting purposes than play UMass in our own backyard. Now that UMass is jumping up and ACC will likely move to a nine game conference sched, there’s no incentive to face UMass after the I-A and Notre Dame games.
Editor, BC Interruption
Scheduling smart
I’ve written about Northwestern’s non-conference scheduling philosophy before. The logic is simple: you make the decision of a recruit who is targeting multiple of these school that much easier when you beat them on the field. I think already this year, Northwestern won out on at least two recruits who were also considering BC after NU’s win.
This should be the blueprint for BC.
Here’s NU’s future non-conference opponents (USN&WR in parenthesis):
2012 @ Syracuse (62)
2012 Boston College (31)
2012 Vanderbilt (17)
2013 @ California (21)
2013 @ Vanderbilt (17)
2013 Syracuse (62)
2014 @ Notre Dame (19)
2014 California (21)
2014 Vanderbilt (17)
2015 @ Duke (10)
2015 Stanford (5)
2016 Duke (10)
2017 @ Duke (10)
2017 Rice (17)
2018 Duke (10)
2018 Notre Dame (19)
2018 Rice (17)
2019 Stanford (5)
2019 Syracuse (62)
2020 @ Syracuse (62)
2021 Stanford (5)
2022 @ Stanford (5)
Editor, BC Interruption
Brian's write up is how I feel the teams will be split
And which ever side it happens, the conference will do it’s best to ensure that BC Cuse will play in all sports as often as possible. It will be good for tv, and hopefully will create more of a “rival” dynamic for BC’s program. I’m glad to be adding some Northern programs to connect the conference geographically and hopefully culturally.
Good write up, this is why I keep coming back to BCI.
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
by AParker on Dec 9, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
to connect the conference geographically and hopefully culturally.
connect culturally to Clemson??? HA HA HA HA
boy oh boy
Eagleosprey hates Clemson about as much as waterwater did— speaking of, I haven’t seen waterwater around in a while… coincidence?
Waterwater RIP
I am not waterwater. There may never be another.
I understand from some very hazy reports that waterwater was killed in battle about a month age. He died in the throes of full-throated passion for the Heights . It was on a hill just past the Rakes of Mallow , where he had one foot down, but he was blindsided. Waterwater was shot in the back by a coward who had no business wearing the noble colors of our enemy: Blue and Gold
You see, The killer was not a real enemy soldier, but a very yellow wannabe, an imposter, a cold and timid soul who can never know either the passion of victory or defeat of a true fan.
I also understand that waterwater has a son that is growing quickly and may don the maroon and gold in due course.
Also in the “hope to play ’Cuse annually” camp. Indifferent as to whether it’s through their placement in the Atlantic or the cross-divisional, protected matchup.
by Eagle in Brighton on Dec 9, 2011 2:04 PM EST reply actions
Though thinking about this further, I don't know if it should be indifference ...
Rationale: Intradivisional games will always carry more weight in the conference standings than interdivisional ones. E.g. when Virginia Tech and Virginia met at the end of this season, the game became a de-facto Coastal Division Championship game. If those two teams were on opposite sides of the conference, the game could have meant much less.
Ideal situation for me is BC-Syracuse becomes Virginia Tech-Virginia. Always meet the final game of the regular season and hopefully in some years there is an Atlantic Division title on the line. If BC and Cuse are separated, game has much less importance. Highly unlikely, but worse case scenario is that BC and Syracuse are a game ahead of the rest of the divisions, they meet in the regular season finale and then meet again a week later in the ACCCG.
Big Ten got this wrong putting Ohio State and Michigan on opposite sides and keeping that game at season’s end. Game means much less if the two teams end up meeting the following week in the B1G Ten title game. First time this happens, the Big Ten will either move that game back to October or realign the divisions.
Editor, BC Interruption
Ideally
BC, Pitt, SU, Miami and VTech in the same division… Party like it’s 1999?
Orange you glad it's not football season?
As an SU fan, we joined the ACC to beat the crap out of BC and
we also joined to to go to Boston, just in case we don’t beat the crap out of BC, we had fun in Boston. Now, that is a great city. Tell me how we survive on Tobacco Road?
I want to have a rivalry with ‘Cuse, but I have far greater enmity for ND and UCONN than any other school. Sure SU and BC have history and it’ll be a great ACC rivalry, but I still sort of feel like it’s BC/SU and maybe Pitt against Tobacco road and elitist southern football. Anyone else?
ACC Lacrosse should be better than ever... Does BC play lacrosse?
Orange you glad it's not football season?
East- Westish Split
Since it’s basically a North- South league, why not split it Eastish- Westish. The East would be:
BC
Maryland
Virginia
North Carolina
NC State
Clemson
Miami
And that would leave the West with:
Syracuse
Pittsburg
Virginia Tech
Duke
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Florida State
Cross division games could be:
BC v Syracuse
UVA v VT
Duke v UNC
WF v NCSU
GT v Clemson
FSU v Miami
Pitt v MD
Maryland gets the shaft, but their own fans don’t like them. At the BC- Maryland game this year, stadium personnel outnumbered Maryland fans 3 to 1! They can replace West Virginia in the "Next Street Over Brawl"
BC would loose our beat down with VT in exchange for Miami. Granted, we have only beaten them 3 times in my life time, they are certainly more beatable at this point! I also feel that this alignment would appease the recruiting argument, though it might be tough on the competitive balance meter.
by Joseph Symolon on Dec 13, 2011 11:46 AM EST reply actions
Lose FSU-Clemson (probably makes this a nonstarter), as well as a whole bunch of old Big East rivalries — BC-Pitt, BC-Virginia Tech, Miami-Virginia Tech, Miami-Syracuse, Miami-Pittsburgh. Seems a little forced imo.
Also may run into issues with the cross-divisional rivalries. UVa-Virginia Tech has been played at the end of the regular season for several years now. I know BC-Syracuse want to do the same. You want to limit the number of Atlantic-Coastal matchups during the last week of the regular season to avoid the ACCCG rematch a week later.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Dec 13, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
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