ACC Expansion: Big East Won't Accept Buyouts From Pitt Or Syracuse
by Brian Favat on Dec 28, 2011 10:00 AM EST
in Conference Expansion
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PrintAccording to a report in the Sporting News, the Big East won't be backing down on its 27-month notice of withdrawal for West Virginia, Pitt and Syracuse. It doesn't sound like John Marinatto is accepting cash, either.
A high-placed Big East source told Sporting News that not only will the Big East not back off its 27-month notice of withdrawal for West Virginia, Pitt and Syracuse, but there's "no chance" the three wayward universities can buy their way out of the contract - for any amount of money - and leave in time for the 2012 season.
"It's not about money," the Big East source said. "It never has been."
It's unclear whether this is further positioning from Providence to get a larger buyout from West Virginia, as the other BCS commissioners seem to believe that West Virginia and the Big East will cut a deal that will allow the Mountaineers to compete in the Big 12 next season.
It may not be about money, but maybe just a little? The conference's TV partners can renegotiate a reduction in media rights fees should any current Big East member leave the conference before the current contract is up, which could end up hurting current Big East football and basketball programs financially.
As the Mountaineers and the Big East battle it out in court, West Virginia could simply leave and play in the Big 12 next season, breaking their current contractual obligations with the Big East and being subjected to a whole heap of legal fees.
West Virginia has been extremely aggressive in trying to bolt for the Big 12 in time for the 2012-13 season. Pitt and Syracuse, on the other hand, have been slow-playing the conference switch, bypassing the legal route and surveying the WVU-Big East battle to gauge whether the two programs could join the ACC sooner than 2014-15.
As the Big East digs in here, it doesn't appear likely that the Big East will release Pitt and Syracuse before 2014-15, and you can bet that the conference isn't going to do either program any favors when it comes to football scheduling in 2012 and 2013.
The timing also raises an interesting question about what to do about BC's 2013 home game against Syracuse. Will the two schools want to keep this game on the schedule if Syracuse is still in the Big East? BC will likely want to keep the return game from the Eagles' 2010 trip to the Carrier Dome, but the programs may simply want to cancel the rest of the long-term non-conference series that runs from 2013-2021 and let the ACC conference schedule take over starting in 2014.
Boston College was put in a similar position when the program moved to the ACC. In 2004, the Eagles traveled to Winston-Salem to take on Wake Forest in the return trip of a home-and-home non-conference schedule, only to host the Demon Deacons in an ACC contest the following season.
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Is the Big East waiting 27 months before they allow Boise, San Diego State, and any other schools IN to the conference? Shouldn’t be able to have one without the other.
by Erik00 on Dec 28, 2011 10:41 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Conference Bylaws
The Big East has a 27-month notice period as part of it’s exit policy in its bylaws, which was constructed and approved unanimously by all three departing schools. The expansion members time of entry time is determined by the bylaws for Conference USA and Mountain West, both of those conferences only call for one academic year’s notice, so all expansion schools will be eligible by 2013 to join the Big East… the point of the bylaw change in 2004/05 was to make it difficult to be raided and give the conference time to rebuild if it should be, and it appears that is exactly what is happening. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pitt and ‘Cuse back out of their move to the ACC, once a new significantly larger television contract is signed by the Big East in 2012. It’s no secret a larger piece of television revenue pie was their only reason for the reason for leaving.
I like sports, movies, and music!
by jmacgregorny on Dec 29, 2011 6:19 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t be surprised if Pitt and ‘Cuse back out of their move to the ACC, once a new significantly larger television contract is signed by the Big East in 2012. It’s no secret a larger piece of television revenue pie was their only reason for the reason for leaving.
You are joking, right?
Editor, BC Interruption
The Big East adding Houston, SMU and Central Florida for all-sports and Boise State and San Diego State for football all but ensures that Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia aren’t coming back.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Dec 29, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Right
Because Pitt and Syracuse are football power houses. Screw em. The ACC deserves what it gets buy taking these two “power houses” into their conference. That’s the joke.
by Vinnie Giordano on Dec 30, 2011 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Conference USA 2.0. Enjoy.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Dec 30, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
To Vinnie Giordano
Everyone knows that it isn’t the football teams of Syracuse and Pitt that the acC wants. Syracuse has stunk for a decade now and I would rate Pitt a ‘B’. Let the aCc have these so so football teams to add to its mountain of so so teams. The only decent team year in and year out for the aCc is V.T., and it is a former Big East team. The problem is the acC’s jealousy of The Big East’s basketball conference. But even without Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia, all outstanding Big East basketball teams, The big East will continue to tower over the aCc in basketball. But I will be gald to see these teams hammering n. Carolina, and that other team, ducke.
The biggest problem is the acc’s jealousy of the Big East. The AcC is like a fox in the chicken coop, it keeps coming back again and again. ’til the owner of the chickens finally comes out and shoots it.
by foreverwhalerfan on Dec 30, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Uhhhh no
WVU is contractually obligated and legally bound to wait 27 months before securing their exit from the Big East, and they are in for a major disappointment if they think they are going to be playing in any conference other than the BE next year absent further legal entanglements.
Boise State, SDSU, Houston, et al are only bound by whatever their current conference bylaws are with regard to when they can exit.
One has absolutely zero to do with the other.
You can break a contract
WVU is free to walk away and play in Big 12 next year. They would, of course, be inviting legal action from the Big East in doing so, but if they see a benefit greater than anticipated cost, they can break their contract with the Big East and await the consequences.
WVU cannot afford to leave without a court order...
It’ll get UGLY if they leave without winning freedom in court. The repercussions of breaking the binding contractual bylaws of which they helped create, will be devastating in civil court, the penalties will be severe. Leaving will also be a blow to conferences and member organizations of all types across the country. Not to mention it would basically make bylaws and rules of organizations unenforceable. Schools could walk or disobey at anytime and drag consequences out for years in courts. I doubt the big 12 wants to set that precedent with Texas or Oklahoma constantly toeing the line of stepping off to the Pac 12. So, unless someone big independent like BYU or Notre Dame joins for 2012, or Boise State pays it’s exit buyout to leave Mountain West early; don’t even think the Big East will consider a buyout first. Even then, the buyout would probably be the value of the buyouts of the other expansion members to get them in for 2012 as well… in excess of 20-million a piece!
I like sports, movies, and music!
by jmacgregorny on Dec 29, 2011 6:34 AM EST up reply actions
I call BS...
This is the type of reasoning one can expect from a Providence College grad…
Orange you glad it's not football season?
by SUMB44 on Dec 29, 2011 5:01 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The Big 12
Also would open itself up as well for legal action. That is why the SEC was so careful when it came to inviting A&M and Missouri to the conference.
by Vinnie Giordano on Dec 30, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
"It's not about money," the Big East source said. "It never has been."
Hence the mass exodus from the Big East.
by BCPhilly13 on Dec 28, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Fixed
“It’s not about college football,” the Big East source said. “It never has been.”
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Dec 28, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Big East should Fold
ACC and Big 12 should immediately take Louisville, Cincy, UConn, and Rutgers. See how much money you will get then from the new contract.
Need Help
It’s true….. if we could get B12 to take Cinci and the Ville and the ACC to complete the deal and take Rutgers and U Conn we could all vote to change the bylaws and then leave Big East for free. Afterall its not about the money its about the students right ? I’d like to see that meatball from Prov when he sees hat on ESPN !
Hey Dummy...
You still wouldnt have the majority vote since USF, ND, Marquette, St. Johns, DePaul, Villanova, Georgetown, Providence and Seton Hall still have votes. Not to mention that once you announce you are leaving you lose your voting privileges. Try again dummy.
Big East loses no matter what
Any of these schools could simply leave and play in the ACC or Big 12 as soon as next season, breaking their current contractual obligations with the Big East and being subjected to legal fees that would total around $15 million-ish (estimated by a N.Y. law firm). My guess is that Syracuse and Pitt will see how it goes and if WVU gets out without exceeding the number they will demand the same, if not, they may work out some help from the ACC and just leave Big East without warning.
The flip-side is the ACC’s Notre Dame move. They may be content to just let Syracuse and Pitt remain in the BE while they continue to work on things with ND. It’s no secret that the ACC wants ND and that, really, ND wants to be in the ACC (as they themselves keep saying). The ACC and ND both may just be working out scheduling and logistics at this point. The ND folks have been to several meetings in Carolina at the ACC offices, the ACC people have been to South Bend. ND just played 4 ACC teams this year and it went well for both sides. The real question in all this is who gets to be #16? It’s been well published that there are 12 schools that the ACC would look at (including ND) for the last 2 slots. The remaining 11 teams on the list are U.Conn, Rutgers, BYU, Louisville, Temple, East Carolina, Memphis, Southern Miss, Cincinnati, South Florida and Tulane
About 1/2 of those can be eliminated due to the ACC’s position on academics. U.Conn, Rutgers, BYU, Temple, Southern Miss and Tulane would seem to be the real candidates with BYU, U.Conn and Rutgers being the front-runners.
But the truth is, no matter what happens here, the BE loses.
ND without football is a non starter
There is NO WAY the ACC will take ND without football and unless the BE Catholic schools totally implode (unlikely) As far as the ND sees it (staying with BE) they still get
1) NBC TV Contact _ No sharing
2) 10 game win auto BCS bid… ok any top ten finish – no Sharing
3) Great football schedule USC- UM – MSU – Navy and anyone else they want
4) Big East basketball without Pitt, Syracuse and WV is still the 2nd best after the ACC
5) ND still gets like minded private schools in Georgetown, Nova, Marquette, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence.
6) Finally they get the best non BCS Big East bowl and don’t have to share it either
In this case it is all about the cake and getting to eat it too
What do they get from the ACC ?
“About 1/2 of those can be eliminated due to the ACC’s position on academics. U.Conn, Rutgers, BYU, Temple”???
Ummm, you might want to look at the schools that are in the AAU – the 59 top research and academic institutions – what the B10 really wants academically from any school it adds. Rutgers is in the list. Most the AAC isn’t.
The Big east really mucked-up their expansion
There could have been a quality BE football league without going to the extreame.
U.Conn should have been kicked out for being such turds about wanting to join the ACC.
ND should have been given two weeks to either join in all sports or cut all ties with them. Assuming they balked, the next steps should have been…
Upgrade Villanova in football and invite Temple, East Carolina, and BYU in all sports (if BYU couldnt be worked then Bowling Green). That replaces the loss of ND, U.Conn, Syracuse and pitt. Then you invite Central Florida, Northern Illinois, Southern Miss and Memphis in all sports and Xavier and Butler in all sports except football.
This would have given the conference 12 solid teams in football, 20 amazing teams in basketball, strong Olympic sports with well supported and balanced programs. Easier travel among schools and potential for program growth among new members.
The Eastern Division:
Rutgers
Villanova*
Temple
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John’s
Georgetown
The Western Division:
Northern Illinois
Cincinnati
Louisville
Southern Miss
Memphis
Notre Dame or BYU or Bowling Green
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Butler
Big East football
The best Big East expansion plan is to give up on football completely. There just aren’t enough quality teams left to field a conference that can stand alongside the five other BCS AQ conferences. What you are left with is a slightly upgraded Conference USA. Hell, half of the conference’s football-playing members have played in C-USA at one point.
Big East basketball members should have broken away from the football playing members and should have went after Butler, Xavier and Temple:
East: Temple, Villanova, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John’s, Georgetown
West: Notre Dame, Marquette, DePaul, Xavier, Butler, Memphis
If the Big East was serious at getting back at the ACC, they’d abandon the football dream and reload as the best basketball conference in the country.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Dec 30, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
As for football, the Mountain West should have merged with the WAC, not Conference USA. And the remaining football-playing Big East members should have merged with C-USA for football only. WAC should say thanks, but no thanks to Seattle, Texas State, Texas-San Antonio and the other schools looking to move up.
The Mountain West / WAC becomes a manageable 14-team league:
Mountain West / WAC:
Pacific:
San Diego State
San Jose State
Hawaii
UNLV
Nevada
New Mexico
New Mexico State
Mountain:
Boise State
Idaho
Wyoming
Air Force
Colorado State
Utah State
Louisiana Tech
As for Conference USA and the Big East, a 17-team league is a bit unwieldy, but might look something like this:
Northeast: Connecticut, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Louisville
Southeast: Central Florida, Southern Miss, South Florida, Tulane
Southwest: Houston, SMU, Rice, UTEP, Tulsa
NASCAR: East Carolina, UAB, Marshall, Memphis
Editor, BC Interruption
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