Conference Realignment: West Virginia To Big 12, Pitt And Syracuse To Join ACC Sooner?
by Brian Favat on Oct 28, 2011 1:18 PM EDT
in Conference Expansion
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PrintThe Big 12 and West Virginia made it official today, with the Mountaineers winning the roshambo over the Cardinals for the 10th and final spot in the conference.
West Virginia, a member of the Big East Conference since 1995, was formally invited on Friday to join the Big 12.
Big East spokesman John Paquette confirmed that the Mountaineers have notified the conference of its intentions.
The Big 12 plans to remain at 10 schools.
West Virginia's exit from the conference leaves the Big East with just five football playing members -- UConn, Rutgers, Cincinnati, South Florida and Louisville. Read Rick Pitino's comments on the move for a good laugh.
Stop by The Smoking Musket to join in on the celebratory couch burnings, and check out Card Chronicle for the schadenfreude.
In other realignment news, the ACC may be adding Syracuse and Pittsburgh sooner rather than later. West Virginia reportedly has an offer that would allow them to bypass the 27-month waiting period if they fork over $21 million to the Big East. Pittsburgh and Syracuse could also pay the $21 million exit fee to speed up the 27-month waiting period.
John Swofford and co. better get started on that 14-team schedule format and divisional alignment ASAP.
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Swofford completely forgot about that invitation he sent
He seems to have had gone into basketball related deficiency , now that UNC basketball is back and the ONLY damn thing the media will talk about down here (Charlotte, NC) he is all better.
Don't give up, don't ever give up ~ Jim Valvano
Does this up the ante for the move to 16 teams or not?
What is the thought on where this leaves further ACC expansion at this point? You have to think that UConn is now in full panic mode and MTV is working on the Celebrity Tag Team Death Match between Susan Herbst / Paul Pendergast (UConn) and Tim Pernetti / Richard McCormick (Rutgers) with the winner waiting for Notre Dame’s decision.
Funny, I still really don’t get what either school really brings that the ACC would want. UConn hoops, ok, but they don’t bring a TV market to the table and although you might look at Rutgers and say they can bring NY, they don’t have an impact in that market either
BC of course is really no better from the “delivering the market” stand point, but the decision was made to bring them in many moons ago, so that’s water under the bridge.
Hartford/New Haven is the #30 media market in the country- not as big as Boston, but sizable. UConn is also #4 for popularity in NYC, two spots above Syracuse.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
no one cares about UConn
As the L’ville/ B12 snub should tell you, great basketball is as important as great field hockey. No one cares. And only ‘hairy lesbos’ care about great women’s hoops. :-)
Again with the homophobia?
What is it with you Jesuits? You don’t enjoy watching women play sports?
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
"no one care about UConn" - believing that doesn't mean it's actually true
A list of some schools with smaller fanbases than UConn (ranked #47 nationally). Keep in mind that this was a survey of football fans, not basketball fans:
Arizona State (#48), Ole Miss (#49), Mississippi State (#50), Duke (#51), Iowa State (#52), USF (#53), Northwestern (#54), Colorado (#56), Boise State (#57), Maryland (#58), N.C. State (#59), Kansas State (#60), Arizona (#61), Vanderbilt (#64), TCU (#65), Utah (#67), Stanford (#69), Cincy (#70), Louisville (#73), Washington State (#75), Navy (#78), Air Force (#83), Baylor (#85), Army (#88), Wake Forest (#100)
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
BCS schools ranked lower than UConn on this list are irrelevant because they are already in a BCS conference.
So UConn fans can use this to bolster your BCS conference resume and hold over Boise State, Cincinnati, Louisville, Navy, Air Force and Army. But in the end, all those schools likely end up in the Big East for football anyway. UConn can have the largest fan base in the New New Big East!
Editor, BC Interruption
Hey, just pointing out that the “no one cares about UConn”/“UConn football has no fanbase” argument against UConn that gets thrown out around here doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say no one cares about UConn, but I do think the fact that UConn, Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida are less than a decade away from “mid-major” status hurts them wrt being an attractive conference expansion candidate.
Rutgers is, well, Rutgers. Long history of futility in both football and hoops.
Editor, BC Interruption
Considering how young UConn Division I football is
we’ve come a long way very quickly.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
No one is disputing this. This also doesn’t change the fact that UConn has taken a number behind Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia wrt conference realignment as all three have a much longer history of success in football.
No one should be shocked to see those three schools get a conference lift raft over UConn or Louisville, either.
Editor, BC Interruption
The ACC will not expand again until Irish football is off the table (and a member of a non-ACC BCS conference). Swofford will continue to keep a seat warm for ND, and would be foolish to shut the door on adding football programs much more valuable than Rutgers and UConn in the future.
Option value, my man.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 28, 2011 3:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Option value, my man.
The correct response.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 28, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
USF is a perfect #16
a much smarter choice than UConn or Rutgers
USF is the next FSU or UF in waiting.
Smaller fanbase, atrocious academics
UConn is ranked #47 nationally with 618,724 fans. USF is #53 with 520,627.
And BC is #35 with 842,480.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the NYT article is perfect by any stretch. But the irony here is that citing that article makes Rutgers look like a much more attractive expansion option than UConn.
Editor, BC Interruption
That's a legitimate point
Although it’s not like you yourself didn’t already have your mind made up on that front.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not that I already had my mind made up. It’s just that it makes no sense to add Rutgers and UConn with Notre Dame continuing to maintain its football independence. Everyone talks like 16 is a foregone conclusion, but you have to appreciate the game theory at play here between ND and the ACC. Until that situation is resolved, the ACC will not expand further.
Also, the ACC needs to strengthen its football brand. UConn and Rutgers individually don’t do much to prop up the football side of the equation. Yes, UConn made a BCS bowl last year, but they are also only a dozen years removed from I-AA ball and play far from campus. Rutgers has been historically terrible at football, but claims the country’s largest TV market more than most. Also NJ is a much more desirable recruiting area than CT, which adds some value for getting to play at RU. Both have their football warts. Neither candidate is perfect.
Obviously I think RU is a slightly better ND running mate for 16, but both RU and UC have their blemishes.
Editor, BC Interruption
I also have a hard time believing there are 3.5x the number of Duke football fans as there are Wake Forest football fans, even with the tiny size of Wake.
Also shows the relative strength of BC compared to the rest of the ACC.
Finally, how come all those Miami fans aren’t showing up to games?
Editor, BC Interruption
I'd say Nate Silver has more credibility as an objective statistician than you do, Brian
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well since you seemingly are taking Nate Silver’s piece as gospel, the good news is that UConn is next in line … after Rutgers, that is.
Also, Louisville = screwed.
Editor, BC Interruption
Gospel? No.
But it’s certain useful as a reference. And like I said, Silver is good at what he does. He knows sports too- he got started in baseball stats before he moved into political work.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are going to take shots at the objectivity of this site, then you probably shouldn’t believe everything you read from Mark Blaudschun, Jeff Jacobs and Desmond Conner, either.
Editor, BC Interruption
Any sports feature piece
will contain some degree of the journalist’s personal perspective, or it wouldn’t be a feature. I know you guys have a lot of beefs with Blaudschun, especially his interview with DeFilippo, but I haven’t seen or heard anything that suggests he wasn’t accurately reporting the news.
Jeff Jacobs is an opinion columnist, so he’s not supposed to be “objective”; by their nature, his columns are just that- his opinions.
And hey, this site isn’t supposed to be “objective”- its a fan community, and reflects those fans’ opinions. My point above was simply that Silver knows more about compiling stats than you and I do.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
'how come all those Miami fans aren’t showing up to games?'
Because all those Miami fans live outside of south Florida. Their parents were probably UNLV basketball fans some 20 years ago (and look how irrelevant that program is now, a future Miami is likely facing).
And from a purely football sense, I can’t take the Nate Silver ratings seriously. Duke football more popular than Maryland or NCSU? Then why is Wallace Wade Stadium today full of maroon and orange?
Big East...die already
Let us eat your football children and be done with it.
And the odd thing is we thought the BCS conferences would expand when in actuality a Big East collapse could create contraction.
I write stuff From the Rumble Seat.
To be honest, happy to see WVU get thrown a life-preserver: a program with some football history (original BE member), decent basketball, fans travel, etc.
L’Ville literally was in Conference USA as of six years ago: don’t understand what they feel they’re entitled to football wise.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 28, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions
Replace L’Ville with Cincy, USF, etc. and the point still holds.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 28, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I guess the nation’s most profitable basketball program wasn’t enough to get them a seat at the Big 12 table.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 28, 2011 3:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
USF is much better play than L'Ville or Cincy
Look beyond your preconceived notions. USF is growing, FL is growing. It is an excellent ACC #16 choice.
USF
I don’t have strong feelings for or against, though if the conference turned it’s collective nose up at WVU fans/academics, feel like USF would have even less of a chance (same academic issues, second tier football, abysmal basketball, etc.).
If the conference wanted a school like USF, why wouldn’t it have just grabbed WVU when it had the chance?
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 28, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Disagree
The ACC already has 2 of Florida’s Big 3. Picking up USF just doubles over the conference’s footprint. There would also be reservations from both FSU and Miami.
Academics roughly equal, WVU would have been a better choice for 16 over USF for the reasons Eagle in Brighton states.
Editor, BC Interruption
I find today’s WVU trash talk directed at Pitt fans kinda funny, especially when you consider the Big 12 was the ’Eers third choice.
Still, happy to see WVU land on its feet. Of the remaining Big East programs, they were a clear #1 as a school that has earned a life raft.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 28, 2011 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
By the way: doesn’t $21 million strike you as high (relative to their exit fee, a 4x multiplier)? Hope that’s just posturing for a favorable negotiating position.
On first glance, doesn’t appear like departing schools have that much leverage. Not sure SU, Pitt, WVU could even threaten sabotage, etc.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 28, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions
Agree
Pretty certain the Big East is on firm legal ground if they want to dig in and hold Syracuse, Pitt and West Virginia to the 27-month waiting period.
Editor, BC Interruption
It might shock you
But I hope that WVU, ‘Cuse, and Pitt are able to quickly reach a settlement with the BE so that they can move on and join their new conferences. Drawing it out will only cause bad blood and make everyone look worse for it. However, Mariatto (being the jackass he is) will likely choose a strategy that will anger everyone except for the basketball schools and ND. If the current round of prospects (Boise, etc.) turns down the BE offers and the BE is looking at only having 5 football schools in 2012, it’s going to get very ugly.
by RookTakesYou on Oct 28, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Big EWAC
Five Big East schools play an eight game home-and-home schedule.
Five WAC schools play a similar schedule.
Championship game in Kansas City.
Editor, BC Interruption
'Big EWAC'...hmmm, I like it
Now, if it could make an arrangement with George Lucas to create a title-game mascot from “Star Wars”…perfect.
Grab NY
Bryan…I don’t see the ACC grabbing Uconn anytime soon. But I am hearing two separate rumors. What are your take on them?
1. The SEC may poach Clemson, if so the ACC may be forced to replace them. I also hear that the B1g may try to poach Maryland, although I don’t see Maryland leaving.
2. I also heard that the ACC grab of both PiTT and CUse beat the B1G to the punch and thus a grab of booth Rutgers and Uconn will give them the New York market and a foothold in the NE. I don’t see this happening, since travel would be an issue.
Last…I know this is driven by football, but with Uconn’s ball both men and women, I hear that Duke, Carolina, CUse, Pitt, Maryland are lobbying hard for Uconn as well as some B1G schools, most notably Izzo for a bball program.
IMO, I believe the non football schools will break off. Gtown, Nova, Providence, Seton Hall, St.Johns, will break off, and join with possibly Temple, St.Joes,and some others. Someone will make a grab for 16 teams forcing the other conferences to grab what is left. Uconn and Rutgers will eventually find a home.
1. I don’t think Clemson-to-SEC has legs. May be some grumblings from Tiger fans, but the administration seems firmly entrenched in the ACC and has repeatedly shot down these rumors.
2. I don’t think the B1G was targeting Syracuse and Pittsburgh.
3. Pitt and Syracuse can lobby, but I don’t believe they have a say in the next round of expansion targets (if there is further expansion). I also don’t think that Duke, Carolina and Maryland are “lobbying hard” for UConn. Gary Williams recently joked that he hopes the next round of ACC expansion, if any, includes some football schools. Edsall obviously doesn’t want UConn in the ACC. Awk-ward. And while neither Edsall nor Williams make the decisions on behalf of Maryland, they certainly have some influence.
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