College Hockey Realignment: Could Holy Cross Be Hockey East #12?
by Brian Favat on Oct 20, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
in Boston College Hockey
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PrintWe all know that with Notre Dame now in the fold, Hockey East will look to expand to another program to round out the league at an even dozen. Plenty of possible expansion targets have been tossed around in recent weeks; everyone from the ECAC (Quinnipiac, RPI) to Atlantic Hockey (Niagara, RIT, UConn) to the non-existent (Syracuse, Rhode Island).
But could Hockey East program #12 actually be located a few miles from Chestnut Hill? The Worcester City Council seems to think so:
"Clearly, we cannot speak for Holy Cross, nor should we, nor should we try," said Germain, a Holy Cross alum and one-time hockey star there. "In the past, the Hockey East has made overtures to Holy Cross; they want Holy Cross in their league. If Holy Cross wants to do it, it would need to move its (home) games from the Hart Center because it is too small. They would have to play at the DCU Center, and that is something we as a city might be able to help the college out with.
"The economic spinoff from something like that is something to consider because hockey is huge in this city," he added "There is a lot of support in this area for Holy Cross hockey. Let's reach out to Holy Cross to see what their interest is and see how the city can work with them. They will need the help of the city, and as a city government, we should show that we are willing to facilitate their needs. Let's not miss out on this opportunity."
If the city of Worcester wants the Crusaders in Hockey East, could the Holy Cross administration be willing to make a similar jump?
Holy Cross hockey joining Hockey East makes a lot of sense. The program would have an instant Jesuit rival in Boston College (though like the recent basketball series, would likely be a lopsided one in the future) and join fellow Catholic schools Merrimack, Providence and Notre Dame in HEA. Unlike other Atlantic Hockey expansion candidates like UConn, Holy Cross has actually had some degree of success playing in the AHA, having last made the NCAA Tournament in 2006.
The downside, as Fear The Triangle points out, is that the Cross would play its home games in the DCU Center. Now I can't personally vouch for The Centrum, but I haven't exactly heard good things about the arena. It's also unclear what level of support Crusaders hockey would get from the administration and the student body. However, I'd imagine if you replaced American International, UConn, Bentley, Sacred Heart and Mercyhurst on the annual schedule with Boston College, Boston University, UMass, New Hampshire and Notre Dame that student interest in the program would improve dramatically.
Personally, I'd rather see Holy Cross, a school that seems to be a very good geographic and cultural fit with the rest of the Hockey East schools, join the conference over several other expansion options (RIT, RPI, UConn or non-existent programs at Syracuse or Rhode Island). And if Hockey East is going to pair down the number of league games to 22 (down 5 from 27) -- meaning less games against BU, Maine, New Hampshire, Northeastern and UMass -- I'd rather a traditional rival of BC's take two of those scheduling slots over RIT, RPI or UConn.
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::sigh::
Reading this just reaffirms how awful the deal accepting ND into the conference is. There was something just so great about our neat little New England footprint. Holy Cross, even playing in the DCU center, would be a great fit (for my money, I’ve been to the DCU Center for a few NCAA regionals to see BC play and I’ve never seen them lose!). A Quinnipiac or UConn would have been better than ND. I really, really enjoyed the New England rivalries with the other schools (read: I know every game isn’t necessarily a “rivalry” game, but hopefully you understand what I’m getting at). Adding a Connecticut school or another western Mass school, or even another Rhode Island school would have been exponentially better than Notre Dame.
Agreed
If BC is going to have 9 less conference games against current HEA members (including BU, Maine, New Hampshire and Northeastern), I’d rather have two of the replacement games against another team from New England / a traditional rival (over a team from upstate NY, for example).
Editor, BC Interruption
I hadn't heard about that change
when was it announced that league games would be cut back and maybe most importantly, who will fill those games in now?
The assumption is that HEA will move to a 22-game league model (down 5 from 27) when they add a 12th team.
So home-and-home with each of the 11 programs = 22 games. BC would lose 9 games, one against each current HEA member and pick up 4, two against Notre Dame and two against expansion program #12.
That will free up a lot of non-conference games for some programs, but I think the mid- to bottom-tier HEA teams will have a really tough time scheduling non-conference series.
Editor, BC Interruption
Congrats Brian
Your personal growth is impressive. Just think that a few short months ago you were dumb as a stump about Holy Cross. And now here you are writing about HC!.
Consider some of your views from that darker period
not from Massachusetts and not knowledgeable about [HC a] small, regional insignificant members of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities
Had no idea Holy Cross existed .
Seriously, did you or a relative attend the Cross? Could you be overstating the national profile of a school like Holy Cross any more than you already are?
people growing up outside New England are not exposed to or aware of Holy Cross. (via BF alter ego, Sea Psalm)
you are surprised that I wasn’t familiar with Holy Cross
Nice! Using partial quotes out of context ...
Here’s the context:
CSOM_97:
I am not from the Northeast, and I literally know nothing about Holy Cross. I didn’t even know it existed until we played them in hoops for a few years. I still don’t really know anything about it, except I’ve heard on BC message boards it is supposed to be a decent school.
BF:
Not from Massachusetts and not Catholic (though I married into Catholicism). Had no idea Holy Cross existed until BC played them in hoops and Bill Simmons started being a douche nozzle.
I’m sorry Holy Cross inappropriately touched you as a child, ww.
Editor, BC Interruption
How is this even relevant? Hockey East has several schools in it that do not have significant brand recognition outside New England, Merrimack and UMass-Lowell being solid examples.
A significant national profile is not a prerequisite for conference membership in college hockey. A significant percentage of D1 hockey schools are local/regional brands outside hockey circles. College hockey is simply a different animal.
l luv the phony corporate talk Sea Psalm
significant brand recognition
A significant national profile is not a prerequisite
A significant percentage of D1 hockey schools
is simply a different animal
the quotes were copied verbatim
and totally accurate.
you each lacked awarenesss (BF: “I wasn’t familiar with Holy Cross” and SP: “not . . . aware of Holy Cross”) of one of the most elite and prominent Catholic colleges in the USA — and it was right in your own back yard. Now you know. Bravo.
It wasn’t right in my own backyard. I’m not from New England, and Holy Cross was simply not on my radar when I was in high school.
But please keep crying about this.
Editor, BC Interruption
So now we should all talk about regional colleges near where we grew up and mock people for not knowing about Albion College or Denison University?
How could you NOT have considered applying to Haverford College out of high school? You mean to tell me you seriously never heard of that school?? What a joke!
Editor, BC Interruption
Haverford, Denison are well known to people who are awake.
Check out USNWR. Richmond, Bucknell, Mt Holyoke, Holy Cross. All of equal rank, and equal reputation
And guys, u did go to a Catholic university. holy Cross is just as well regarded as BC academically and they are our long time brother school. historically, Holy Cross has has a very special relationship,with BC. show them some respect.
U can’t learn it from Boomer on ESPN though
Again, I am not Catholic, and I’m sorry ww that I didn’t take the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities directory out when selecting schools in high school.
Editor, BC Interruption
historically, Holy Cross has has a very special relationship,with BC. show them some respect.
How are we disrespecting the Cross here?
Last I checked there wasn’t a check box on BC’s application where HS seniors had to acknowledged that you had completed your summer reading assignment — Reid Oslin’s Tales from the Boston College Sideline — so that all incoming freshmen would familiarize themselves with a I-AA football school that stopped playing BC back in 1986.
Editor, BC Interruption
I’m sorry I never seriously considering spending four years at a liberal arts college, waterwater.
CSOM_04
Editor, BC Interruption
You are an ostrich if you can’t come to terms with the fact that not all HS students think about applying to Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Haverford, Davidson or Holy Cross.
Do you hear about these schools on ESPN? No.
Are there fundamental differences in education and college experience between a national university and a LAC, differences that could lead some students to exclusively target national universities while others focus on LACs? Yes.
Editor, BC Interruption
HC in the HE = Merrimack version 2.0
Holy Cross is an geographical fit for HE, and not much else. This is the same program that the ECAC passed on (or vice versa), now suddenly HC is going to step up to the top tier of Eastern college hockey?
HC definitely has a facilities problem as well, with an on campus rink seating 1,600 and the Centrum (DCU Center) seating around 12,000. Unless HC has some plans for a new on campus rink, which I no have reason to believe they do, this is a bad fit. An ideal size rink if HC upgrades would be between 3,500-6,000. Even with an upgrade to HE, crowds of that size for BU/BC/UNH will be dwarfed by the amount of empty seats in the Centrum, plus you’ll be getting crowds of 750 to 900 for opponents like Merrimack and PC. Centrum can only be considered a short term solution and is about as logical as PC moving it’s hockey games to the Dunk. Look how long it took for UMass to actually be able to get respectable crowds in the Mullins Center (i.e. over 50% capacity).
Don’t ever see HC becoming much more than Merrimack 2.0.
Quinnipiac is a much better candidate, have already made the commitment to be competitive and upgraded their facilities, and will round out HE into all 6 NE states.
Good for HE
Not sure if you’ve been following college hockey for the last couple years, but if we could get merrimack 2.0 that would be great. Merrimack has been one of Hockey East’s better teams over the last 3 years and is building a great program. You should check out one of their home games, its an electric atmosphere.
Obviously you are right about the arena size issue, and an upgraded 3,000-4,000 on-campus arena would be needed. I do think the school would make the investment though since the school has had plans drawn up to expand seating capacity in the recent past.
I would refute the low fan draw. Holy Cross would easily draw on local support like most Hockey East schools do now to get some decent numbers.
Since when are on-campus facilities a pre-req for joining a top tier collegiate athletic conference?
Editor, BC Interruption
Don’t think it’s a pre-req to have on campus facilities, I think the key point is having an appropriately sized arena to play in, which could just as easily be on or off campus
I was leading a bit here … Pittsburgh football, UConn football, USF football … all off-campus facilities. But this assumes you consider Big East football to be a top tier collegiate athletics conference, I guess.
Editor, BC Interruption
Hockey East doesn't need a model program as a 12
The key is to add a program that at least fits in some ways be it culturally, geographically or otherwise. HEA has enough strong programs at the top — BC, BU, UNH, Maine, maybe Notre Dame — and doesn’t need another one.
Given the alternatives … RIT, RPI, UConn or Syracuse or URI (pipe dreams) … HC seems just as good an expansion candidate as any.
Though I do support taking a hard look at Quinnipiac as I’ve written in the past, and agree with your points on QU. I would be fine with either Quinnipiac or Holy Cross, but give the slight nod to HC given its similarities with the rest of HEA.
Editor, BC Interruption
I assume that Holy Cross joining would be contingent upon them making a commitment to improving facilities/competitiveness like what quinnipiac has already done.
It wouldn’t suit Hockey East or Holy Cross to have them join as is without plans for growth, but I’m optimistic things would fall in place.
DCU center seating
A few years back (maybe when the Sharks started playing there?) the Centrum added some drop down black curtains that cut off a lot of the seating and make it into an only 7,230 seat arena. I have no clue how HC would do with this and it still seems a little large, but it probably wouldn’t be too bad. As a UML alum, I know the Tsongas is only about 500 seats less than that, and even with the terrible team that we had last year, it was never ridiculously empty (like the 750 to 900 you suggest it could be for HC).
Also, for anyone complaining about how bad it is, have you been to the Centrum in recent years? They’ve done a lot of renovations in the last few years and I believe they are ongoing. I’ve been to a handful of the Hockey East arenas and it would probably be at the very least middle of the pack among them.
by JimmyJimmyYa on Oct 20, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Duly Noted
Well, I admittedly haven’t been able to follow HE hockey in person as closely as I used to, having left NE a few years ago (hence username)
That said, let’s not get carried away here. I seem to recall PC and UML being flavors of the month before crashing back to mediocrity. When MC can put together a sustained run of winning seasons for 4 or 5 years and upgrade the rollout bleachers, then I’d consider them a model program.
No current HEA program is going to crack the Big 4 of BC, BU, UNH, Maine. That’s putting the bar far too high. As miz36 mentioned, MC has been respectable for a few years now. Certainly better than Lowell, Providence or Northeastern (excluding the Brad Theissen year) in recent years.
Editor, BC Interruption
Fair Point
True, Merrimack’s success will be a stronger argument with a larger sample size, but I think they are headed in the right direction. They actually did upgrade from the roll-out bleachers two years ago and put in permanent seating and box seating (kindof, its what they call it, still nice though).
While I can’t explain the fall of PC hockey, I think UML suffers from playing in an AHL arena, which supports your issue with HC playing at the centrum. Thats why I’d hope HC would emulate Merrimack and upgrade their own arena.
Holy Cross prefers to de-emphasize athletics. But I’d support them in the league over anyone else if we need to add someone.
Seems like one of the few expansion candidates with the least number of warts … if they get to play at the Centrum, that is.
Syracuse, URI – non-existent programs
UConn – terrible AHA program
RIT, RPI – just one program in a crowded upstate NY market
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