Boston Globe: Latest Conference Realignment End Game Adds Notre Dame, UConn To ACC
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 9:21 PM EDT
in Conference Expansion
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PrintAssistant to the Big East Commissioner / Boston Globe BC football beat writer Mark Blaudschun continues to go HAM stumping for the ACC to extend an invite to the University of Connecticut. On Wednesday, Blauds blogged that that Missouri holds the fate of Big East football in its hands, in a report that is (once again) light on sources, page breaks, proper punctuation or the services of an editor.
Let's break down Blaudschun's latest Big East football doomsday scenario one step at a time.
"But if Missouri leaves -- and as of this morning the prevailing theory was that the Tigers were still focused on joining Texas A&M as the 13th and 14th members of the SEC -- the Big 12 would make a move to go from 9 to 12 teams with Big East members Louisville and West Virginia as the prime schools on their wish list. Such a move might also happen even if Missouri remains."
Last I checked, pretty sure Missouri is locked into the Big 12 through 2012 and that the Big 12 is staying at 10 teams for now. Let's keep moving.
"The SEC might have one back up plan if Missouri decides to stay. Word is spreading throug the SEC that Clemson may come into play as team No. 14.
The Tigers are more of an SEC fit than ACC fit in many ways."
OK. This is the first I'm hearing of "word spreading throug [sic] the SEC" that Clemson is now tops on the SEC's list of expansion candidates. But let's go with this. To recap: we have Missouri or Clemson in the SEC and Louisville, West Virginia and a third program, if Missouri leaves, in the Big 12. Carry on.
"If that happens, the ACC will be forced to go for a 14th team. The first choice would be Notre Dame, but if the Irish still want to remain as an independent than UConn comes into the picture."
UConn comes onto the ACC's radar if they need to replace Clemson. It's only been a couple days since Blaudschun last mentioned this fact, so just in case you have forgotten, Blauds is here to remind you that UConn is high on the ACC's list of possible replacement candidates.
"But the prevailing wisdom right now is that Missouri will likely be headed to the Big 12, which would set Louisville and West Virginia into motion."
Pretty sure Missouri can't be headed to the Big 12. They are currently a member of that conference.
"Once that happens, all sorts of things happen, none of them good for the Big East,'' said one Big East source. "Without those two schools, the non-football (7 members) would say they had enough and break off on their own. Notre Dame would be forced to make a decision and probably head to the ACC, (which has openly said that any expansion beyond 14 teams would probably be predicated on Notre Dame being one of the teams). If Notre Dame goes, then UConn would be the 16th team on that list.''
Wait. I thought Notre Dame would still want to remain as an independent? See above. Now they are going to jump into the ACC with both feet and take UConn with them? How does one unnamed Big East source know that Notre Dame is willing to give up its football independence to join the ACC? If any Big East official knew the first thing about what Notre Dame's intentions were, well, the conference wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
Notre Dame willing to trade in its football independence and join the ACC as an all-sports member just because they can't dump their Olympic sports in the Big East? Weak argument, Blaudschun. This has less of a chance of happening than Blauds figuring out Twitter enough to send you an @ message, or not starting a Tweet with "We think."
Further, how does an unnamed source know that UConn would be the 16th team on that list? Are they part of the ACC expansion decision-making process? Didn't the Big East commissioner hear about Syracuse and Pitt's departures from the conference from CBSSports.com's Brett McMurphy? Suddenly, this unnamed Big East source is tuned into the ACC's next move. Of course.
Go on ...
"Without Louisville, West Virginia or Louisville, the Big East would be reduced to three survivors--Rutgers, South Florida and Cincinnati."
Louisville counts double.
"Of that group, Rutgers would have the best chance of hooking up with a BCS conference, with the Big 10 the most likely, if only realistic, possibility."
So the Big Ten, whose commissioner has unequivocally stated that expansion is not on the radar, is going to expand to Rutgers and ... no one? They are going to stop at 13? Seriously? And if by "best chance of hooking up with a BCS conference" he means my chances of hooking up with Gisele Bündchen, then yes, I agree with you.
Basically, the only thing that Blaudschun seems to get right in this article is the fact that the basketball schools and the football schools can't agree to anything. Keep doing what you do, Big East.
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This may be a dumb question
if Big East FOOTBALL collapses, how does this affect Notre Dame? Couldn’t Notre Dame just continue to be part of the Big East in the same manner it always has?
also as an aside, I’m really into this conference realignment story, and you guys are great/humorous coverage of that. Most of the Maryland folks don’t find it as interesting, so it’s not covered all that much on Testudo Times. We’re more worried about our front court.
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The reasoning being if the BE football fails, then ultimately there are 4 superconferences all probably with 9 conference games, making it very hard for ND to finding scheduling in Oct-Nov with their usual rivals.
Superconferences + a playoff. So long as Notre Dame keeps access to the BCS as an independent, still no incentive to join a conference.
- We think Notre Dame would still schedule Michigan, Michigan State and Stanford at the beginning of the year
- We think any Pac-16 would carve out enough room to have the Irish continue to play Stanford and USC.
- We think the ACC 16 would also be silly not to cater towards annual games against BC, Syracuse and/or Pittsburgh.
That’s already 7-8 games a season. Moving on …
- We think that Navy, Army and possibly BYU will continue to remain independent, easing scheduling constraints for Notre Dame.
- We think that there is no shortage of non-AQs that will bend over backwards to get a date with Notre Dame.
Can easily get to 12/season, even in the 4×16, 9 conference game model. We think.
Editor, BC Interruption
Purdue, not Stanford in the first bullet
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 13, 2011 10:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Depends
If it entirely collapses, not so much; a BE without the football members would drop all of one conference sport (field hockey, I think). If only USF, UConn, and Rutgers are left (pending future adds), it’s not clear ND wants to be in an all-sports conference with the schools the BE will likely have to add to maintain a football conference.
ND could go to the ACC...
But they aren’t bringing football. They aren’t bringing football for anybody.
If ND went as all-sports without football, I’d think Villanova would jump onto the list. Strong basketball, strong lax, improving baseball. Philly market.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Then unless Swofford is incredibly dumb (though I’m not putting it past him), Notre Dame’s Olympic sports aren’t joining the ACC. Gotta be all or nothing.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I get that.
But ND without bringing their football brings massive amounts of revenue.
1. They’re a huge brand. Probably the biggest.
2. You’d have a scheduling agreement with them where they play a certain amount of ACC teams per year. Increases a TV deal for the conference because of it.
But I agree, right now ACC probably says all or nothing. But I wouldn’t say someone is an idiot for adding them without football. Because down the line when the leagues expand again (which they will) – ACC has the inside track to get ND football when they get to point where they can’t schedule anyone because everyone is playing more conference games and doesn’t have room for them.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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1. Agree, but Duke and Carolina aren’t doing so bad themselves. Neither is Florida State, Virginia Tech or Clemson football. Lot of proud administrators and ADs in the ACC.
2. This assumes the ACC needs the leverage of giving the Irish’s Olympic sports a home to get Notre Dame on member school’s football schedules. That’s not really true. BC (5 games), Pitt (5) and Syracuse (4) — three traditional Eastern rivals — all have multi-year deals with Notre Dame. Wake is on there. Miami is on there. There are enough Irish rivals and marquee programs in the ACC now that Notre Dame can’t afford to simply ignore scheduling ACC teams.
The Big East needed that scheduling agreement with ND much more than the ACC now does and will in the future.
3. I don’t believe four, 16-team superconferences are the end game, but even if they are, this makes it no less harder for the Irish to maintain football independence. They only need to schedule 7-8 BCS AQ programs a year, along with service academies and other non AQs.
If the Pac-12 goes to 16, Notre Dame is still going to play USC and Stanford. They are still going to play Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue. And they’ll still schedule Pitt / Syracuse / BC / Miami, etc. So long as ND retains its sweetheart deal access to the BCS, they don’t have any incentive to go running into the arms of a football super conference.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think we both agree...
They aren’t taking their football anywhere, anytime soon. Maybe never.
But if the Big East folds, which is looking more likely by the day, ND is calling the ACC. Have a hard time thinking the ACC doesn’t take a long look at them as an Olympic sport member. Saying no is the right answer because as you said they have all the leverage. But saying yes wouldn’t necessarily be wrong. I think there are arguments for both sides, just better ones for saying no unless they bring football.
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Agreed
Also keep in mind the ACC isn’t doing anything that isn’t unanimous since they are operating from a position of strength at the moment.
I don’t think the ACC would be quick to add a school to the conference that gets a larger piece of the pie than the others, especially with the failed Big 12 revenue inequality model fresh in everyone’s mind.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the ACC would be quick to add a school to the conference that gets a larger piece of the pie than the others, especially with the failed Big 12 revenue inequality model fresh in everyone’s mind.
Hockey Easy/ND deal with Versus.
/facepalm
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 13, 2011 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Apt comparison. As a journalism snob, huge sucker for the line-by-line takedown.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 13, 2011 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
This guy writes for a paper?
Doesn’t know the difference between “then” and “than” ? Maybe I’m picking nits.
This writer really sucks
I mean, I realize that was the point. But he REALLY sucks.
15 and 16
An ideal scenario making the rounds on EO today was ND as 15 and 16 as Navy (football only) and Villanova (all other sports). I think ND would get to pick #16 if they join and I can see them wanting Navy for a variety of reasons (historical rivalry, ability to schedule neutral site games all around the country, etc.). If Navy only wanted to join for football (very possible), Nova would be a great fit for everything else.
Navy joining would be cool, if only because it would make the few Maryland football fans out there squirm.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
That said, at this point, the ACC is very stable at 14 and I wouldn’t support a hybrid model that is going to be the cause of the death of the Big East.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair
but I think this would be different enough. It would be the functional equivalent of a 16 team conference. The biggest problem would likely be splitting $ and I have no idea how that would work.
That's a big, big problem though
Unequal revenue distribution (and the resulting instability it causes) is one of the main reasons why 3 and maybe 4 Big 12 programs have bolted and why 5 Big East programs will leave for the ACC.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yay for Nova!
I prematurely shot my wad, if you will, on what was supposed to be a dry run, and now it looks like I have something of a mess on my hands.
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Blauds: poor bastard
The Globe is failing. He is nervous. He is blogging. He is tweeting. He is writing articles. His is doing something Blauds never did: he is working!
But apparently volume is his goal and not accuracy or good journalism. Sources? Bah humbug. Who needs them! rumors and speculation will do. Just say it and maybe it will come true. He is in full blown hack mode.
Luv this garbage “we think” tweet of this evening
"@blauds: We think if Mizu doesn’t head to the SEC, Clemson might be the next Tiger to join the SEC zoo."
ZOO. ??? …c’mon they are Tigers! Duh…
You call this work? I wouldn’t publish that article on BCI. Work involves using spell check and using page breaks.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The royal we?
- We think BEast has no choice. Add Navy, Temple, Nova and Cen Fla in fb to get to 10. add UCF temple Basketball get to 16. And pray it works
- We think MIzu is in play in ….Big Ten
- We think if that happens,Rutgers will also be in play in Big Ten
- We think BEast will now hold Cuse and Pitt to 27 month departure rule. We still think Temple and UCF will be first teams invited
- We think BEast should jump to 12, keep Pitt, Cuse in and state title game..and not make Cuse and Pitt eligible to play in title game.
- We think if Mizzu leaves Big 12, Louisville will be the next team in.
- We think Big East is taking a hard look at Boise State to join as a FB only member along with AForce. Temple and UCF would also come along
- We think TCU’s move to Big 12 will be it for now. Mizu might say we like this ten team league. If Mizu leaves, LVille comes into play.
- We think best Beast plan is get Boise (FB only) UCF and Temple now to get to 9 and 16 and then work on getting Navy, AForce and Nova in FB
- We think Big East is getting ready to offer Central Florida a spot in the conference. Maybe as soon as tomorrow
- We think if Mizu doesn’t head to the SEC, Clemson might be the next Tiger to join the SEC zoo.
Dude, learn how to freaking use Twitter.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he has a mouse in his pocket?
Owner of http://www.fearthesword.com/
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Oct 12, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This is hilarious.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
why isn't it plausible for
clemson to go to sec. btw, even if BE invites UCF, it’s not certain it will accept
South Carolina would block them and they don’t bring any new markets for $20 million. VT and NC St. would be worth it since they both bring new markets and that’s about it from the ACC.
by wildthing202 on Oct 12, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
This
I’d add I don’t think either VT or NC State are going anywhere. ACC seems much less poachable now than it did before the Syracuse, Pitt adds and the exit fee increase.
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
True but those two would be the only ACC teams that would be worth it to the SEC
by wildthing202 on Oct 12, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions
never happen
Sure you’d like to explain to your taxpayers and board of reagents why you agreed on raising exit fee to 20 million and left a few months later?
by Kevin Hornbeak on Oct 13, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd also add Maryland
But also agree that anyone leaving the ACC seems remote
Maryland would only leave the ACC for the Big Ten
Joining the SEC would be the equivalent of dyeing your hair blonde (and the old joke about dropping your IQ 10 points).
I hate to break it to those who haven't figured it out yet...
but just because Chuck Neinas said Missouri’s in the B12 until 2012 is over, doesn’t make it so. Missouri has until December 1st to declare if it is leaving the conference or not. Every media outlet took Neinas’s word as fact, which it is not.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
We think the Big 12 is staying at 10 regardless in the short term, which means only one of Louisville (Big 12) or West Virginia (SEC) will be able to escape from the flaming wreckage. /Blauds
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 12, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Motion to start all comments with "We think..."
by DCash on Oct 12, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hear you - I think they stay at 10, too.
It’s driving the Missouri fans crazy that Neinas’s word is being taken as gospel when he has no say, really, in what/when Missouri makes a decision.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
A great point.
but just because Chuck Neinas said Missouri’s in the B12 until 2012 is over, doesn’t make it so.
Financially, and in terms of conference stability, I just can’t imagine Mizzou turning down the SEC if the offer, in truth, exists (regardless of existing regional rivalries with KU and KSU).
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 13, 2011 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It may only be a matter of when, not if with Missouri, but you also have to consider that I think the SEC is planning on 13 in 2012. May make it all sorts of BC-like awkward for Mizzou.
Also if not Missouri, then maybe West Virginia … who would also have to wait 27 months as Marinatto holds them hostage.
Editor, BC Interruption
VERY SIMPLE
ACC = 2 slots
SEC = 3 slots
B1G = 4 slots
Pac12 = 4 slots
Big12 = 2 slots
Big East = Dead
Supposing everyone would eventually go to 16 teams. That leaves 16 spots for: Notre Dame, West Virginia, Boise State, Louisville, Cincinnati, Rutgers, South Florida, Uconn, Navy, Air Force, BYU, Temple, East Carolina, Memphis, Houston, Hawaii, Tulane, SMU, Army, UCF.
So as you can see from that list, not a lot of good teams to take after 6-7. Mizzouri making a choice will make a run on the best teams there before a playoff system is set up. Who wants to be left like the Big East adding East Carolina or Temple as 15 and 16?
P.S. No way would any ACC team leave now if the thought of Notre Dame coming is on horizon.
Great takedown BF. Blaud’s piece is an abortion of an article…
This:
Blauds blogged…in a report that is (once again) light on sources, page breaks, proper punctuation or the services of an editor.
And this:
[The Irish giving up independent status] has less of a chance of happening than Blauds figuring out Twitter enough to send you an @ message, or not starting a Tweet with “We think.”
Are priceless.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 13, 2011 8:04 AM EDT reply actions
I don’t think people in other parts of the country who might not read the Globe regularly realize how much of a hack journalist Blauds is. He is a prime example of a yellow journalist.
At least now his shilling for the BE is brazen. I thought BF’s comparison with Chip Brown (UT Rivals) was particularly appropriate.
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 13, 2011 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s Chip Brown OB without the bat phone to the commissioner and without a clue on how to properly engage with readers on Twitter.
Mostly, I think he’s just making shit up. Clemson to the SEC?
Editor, BC Interruption
F# ND
The ACC does not need ND; however, if the BE football fails ND will need the ACC (or another conference) to stay relevant. ND is a big brand, but scheduling choices and BCS bowl selection opportunities will ultimately decline with the development of larger conferences. If they come calling, I hope we remain strong and demand a full commitment.
BTW, if you are going to sharp-shoot Blaudshaun’s grammar, you should make sure your’s is accurate.
by Blue and Old Gold on Oct 13, 2011 9:27 AM EDT reply actions
Edited
BTW, if you are going to sharpshoot Blaudschun’s grammar, you should make sure yours is accurate.
Seriously though, anything in particular?
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 13, 2011 11:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Love the current debate over at the ’Nova blog about wanting to keep Temple out of the BE to protect their “recruiting edge” over a local program.
Where have I heard that before?….
/feigns victimization
//Hartford Courant swoons
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 13, 2011 4:55 PM EDT reply actions
A block? GTFO!
Poor Temple. Where is Villanova’s Augustinian values? #Courant’d
Editor, BC Interruption
Hah, can’t wait for the next round of Courant buyouts…
by Eagle in Brighton on Oct 14, 2011 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Neither of these articles are exactly 100% true, IMO
Missouri is they key right now in that everyone’s waiting on what they do (or really what the SEC does). Whether Mizzou is truly locked into the Big 12 for 2012 remains to be seen (the article is more opinion than fact). But even if the Togers do stay one more year, if they announce they are leaving it’s no doubt the Big 12 start to look for replacements. Let’s not forget Syracuse and Pitt are still technically in the Big East for now. so arguing over the timing of Mizzou’s departure seems moot.
Even if Missouri stays, I’d have to think the Big 12 still seriously looks at adding some schools. Twelve schools brings the added revenue of a conference championship, adds more stability to the conference, and helps expand the league beyond Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas (and maybe Missouri and whatever you give Iowa St.) in this era of “television markets”.
I’d agree that Clemson to the SEC makes little sense and have heard no such rumblings.
However, everything I’ve read points towards Notre Dame joining the ACC if they had to go somewhere. That said, not sure why Notre Dame has to move. No matter what, it seems the Catholic Big East schools will remain in some capacity. Why not stick with them (Although I’m still amazed Notre Dame football TV rights gets as much money as it does. Constant mediocrity has to take a toll at some point, right?). If Notre Dame does go to any major conference (Big 10, ACC), it’ll be all or nothing.
No matter what ahppens, the Big East remains tenuous at best right now. Even if Mizzou stays, the SEC and Big 12 have to be looking at possible expansion. And several Big East schools would gladly leave if asked. Trying to duct tape that league back together is not exactly on the agenda of Georgetown or Seton Hall or Providence. They’d gladly drop football if it meant adding East Carolina, Central Florida, and whoever else just to appease the football teams. It seems to be a matter of when, not if Big East football dies.
The Big East sees your “tenuous” and raises you Boise State, Air Force, Central Florida, Houston and SMU. Boom!
Editor, BC Interruption
by Brian Favat on Oct 14, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
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